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French checks - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
French checks
Before I ever get to Beauxbatons, let me run some French checks (I believe that will be the equivalent of "Brit-pick" here ;p).

Ville-Sauvage has been approved for "Wild Village," if I recall, but can I get a yea or nay?

I want a river running through it (instead of a lake like Hogwarts)--I noticed that on the map most of the rivers aren't called "River Such-and-Such," but just "Such-and-Such." I was thinking of "Safeguard," since it forms the magical barrier on one side of the school, and I found Sauvegarde. (Which caused me to look up the relationship between the words "safe" and "savage," which there isn't one--the vowel changed at some point in the migration from the Latin, and it was originally from "silv..." which of course refers to woods. I spent way too much time on that.) Is Sauvegarde a good river name?

There's a five part formal garden, with the closest to the school being the garden of the mind; the two at the sides (up closer to the school) being the gardens of the right hand and left hand, bearing Healing plants and poisonous plants respectively; and the gardens of the right and left foot, which contain gardens of plants that Muggles also know (also one with healing ones and the other with poison ones). At the center is the fountain of the heart. So, I'd need
Garden of the Mind
Garden of the Left Hand
Garden of the Right Hand
Garden of the Left Foot
Garden of the Right Foot
Fountain of the Heart

I have Google translations, but of course... er... GIGO, as the name of the mountains turned out to be!

High Tower="Haute Tour"?

Naturally, once we're down there and everyone is speaking French, everything will be represented in English. But I thought it would be good to have good French names for everything.

(Note to anons: I still haven't figured out how to not screen you. I have to check my recent comments, but I'll unscreen pretty much anything. At the moment, it's supposedly set to accept "all comments," but I've had it set there before and found screened ones!)
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Comments
From: severely_lupine Date: September 9th, 2011 04:57 am (UTC) (Link)
Maybe instead of safeguard, you could look up a similar word's translation, like bulwark or something, if you want to avoid thoughts of a connection with the Ville-Sauvage.

I took French in high school and college, but am far from fluent. I'm sure there are people who know more than I do who could answer.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 9th, 2011 05:05 am (UTC) (Link)
I actually don't mind them being similar. It was just amusing to me that such diametrically different definitions have such similar words! "Bulwark" was an alternate definition of "sauvegarde" when I translated back.

Edited at 2011-09-09 05:05 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 9th, 2011 05:34 am (UTC) (Link)

Tour Haute, I think

Adjective generally comes after noun it modifies in French. There are certain exceptions but I don't think that's one of them.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 9th, 2011 05:39 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Tour Haute, I think

I'm definitely bad at figuring out which are the exceptions. I guessed this direction solely because Google did give me several noun-adjective pairs, but this one came out adjective-noun. God knows what kind of crack Google smokes, though.
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 9th, 2011 05:45 am (UTC) (Link)

River names

Nothing against Sauvegarde except perhaps sounding too much like the English word, but here are some other possibilities:

Le Bouclier (shield)
Le Rempart (rampart)
Le Gardien (guardian)
La Douve (moat)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 9th, 2011 05:53 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: River names

If the word's acceptable, I'd like to use it--I like the fact that it sounds like "Sauvage" for some reason. I don't need it to sound different from English--English picked up the words from French, after all. :D
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 9th, 2011 03:23 pm (UTC) (Link)

Hope I'm not too late answering!

"Ville-Sauvage" sounds good to me.
"Sauvegarde"... not so much, mainly because my first reaction when I hear this word is to think of computer technology (as in "sauvegarde des données" = "data saving") -- but maybe that's just me. "La Sauvegarde" might work if you're keen on it. The other suggestions by the anonymous reviewer above are good too, although I'd prefer "la Sentinelle" (the sentry) rather than "le Gardien".

For the gardens, for once the Google translations are probably OK:
Garden of the Mind = le Jardin de l'Esprit
Garden of the Left Hand = le Jardin de la Main Gauche
Garden of the Right Hand = le Jardin de la Main Droite
Garden of the Left Foot = le Jardin du Pied Gauche
Garden of the Right Foot = le Jardin du Pied Droit
Fountain of the Heart = la Fontaine du Cœur

For High Tower, "la Haute Tour" is OK... and so is "la Tour Haute"! This is one instance where you can put the adjective either before or after the noun. As a general rule, the adjective will come after the noun, but some will go first; there isn't really a rule for it, it's mainly due to language usage. Here is a list of adjectives that can be found before the noun: autre, beau/bel, bon, brave, grand, gros, jeune, joli, mauvais, même, meilleur, moindre, petit, pire, vieux/vieil… (taken from http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syntaxe_de_l'adjectif_en_fran%C3%A7ais -- and yes, I had to look it up! Apparently the position of these adjectives is a remnant of the old French, in which the adjective was commonly found before the noun. Oh, the things you learn...)
To get back on topic, I think I would go for "la Haute Tour".

Looking forward to getting to Beauxbâtons!
-Sylvia

PS: I enjoyed the Patronus discussions, both in the chapterlets and in the comments thread.
And, *squee*, two Marauders coming to the Tournament? That oughtta be good!

PPS: Just had the idea to check my French edition of 'Goblet of Fire'; here are some Tournament-related official translations in case you need them for your story:
the Triwizard Tournament = le Tournoi des Trois Sorciers
the Goblet of Fire = la Coupe de Feu
casket (the chest in which the Goblet is kept) = reliquaire
Age Line = Limite d'Âge
champion = champion (for a boy) / championne (for a girl)
the Weighing of the Wands = l'Examen des Baguettes
the First/Second/Third Task = la Première/Deuxième/Troisième Tâche (May I say I find this an awkward translation? "Epreuve" would have been better IMO... Sorry, shutting up now :p)
the Yule Ball = le Bal de Noël
the Triwizard Cup = le Trophée des Trois Sorciers
the Ministry of Magic = le Ministère de la Magie
a Veela = une Vélane
a Portkey = un Portoloin
If you need anything else, just ask – I have both the English and French editions and can easily compare the two!
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 9th, 2011 06:22 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Hope I'm not too late answering!

Oo, thanks for the Triwizard terms! The age line isn't there anymore, but a lot of that is really useful... especially the Rowling-specific Portkey.

I think I like "La Sentinelle" even better than Sauvegarde.

Does "reliquaire" have the same connotations as "casket"? I know that "reliquary" in English is a sacred holder of relics, usually of the "bits of a body" variety, so it actually does match "casket," though both are weird terms!
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 10th, 2011 09:36 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Hope I'm not too late answering!

I don't know the word "casket" and its connotations well enough to answer your question. But "reliquaire" is a perfect equivalent to "reliquary", so you can go from there.
-Sylvia
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 10th, 2011 02:07 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Hope I'm not too late answering!

Casket is used as another word for "coffin," most frequently.
From: mjii88 Date: September 9th, 2011 04:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
As I'm french, I'm finally deciding to comment. First I have to say I love your stories! Thank you for writing about these characters, and for writing so well!
I like Sauvegarde, but I would use La Sauvegarde.
For High Tower, I would use Grande Tour, which I think sounds better.
And for the others :
Garden of the Mind : Le jardin de l'Esprit
Garden of the Left Hand : Le jardin de la main droite
Garden of the Right Hand : Le jardin de la main gauche
Garden of the Left Foot : Le jardin du pied droit
Garden of the Right Foot : Le jardin du pied gauche
Fountain of the Heart : La fontaine du coeur

But I think the hand and foot names don't sound really nice in French, or not "magical" enough...But I can't think of any other idea...

Hope this was any help !
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 9th, 2011 04:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hello,

I'm a native french speaker but grammar and languages are not exactly my best. but here are my comments:

"Sauvegarde" would be ok for the meaning, but to me, the first thing coming to mind is saving in term of saving a computer file... perhaps due to my job? and I do not have a better idea

"Haute Tour" is perfect. Sounds very "heroic fantasy book", probably correct for a wizarding story

Garden of the Mind => Jardin de l'esprit
Garden of the Left Hand => Jardin de la main gauche
Garden of the Right Hand => Jardin de la main droite
Garden of the Left Foot => Jardin du pied gauche
Garden of the Right Foot => Jardin du pied droit
But all sound a bit strange. Perhaps to make it sound more formal an ancient, you could use the old french worlds "dextre" (right) and "senestre" (left)?

Fountain of the Heart => Fontaine du Coeur

now you ask, I remember having been a bit annoyed at your introduction, because of things related to language or switzerland (I'm swiss), but I do not remember exactly what. I'll try to re-read and tell you if you are interested?
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 10th, 2011 09:57 am (UTC) (Link)
I like very much your idea about "dextre" and "senestre"! I too had some misgivings about the hand and foot concept, but it works nicely with these old words.
Kudos to you!
-Sylvia
qslow From: qslow Date: September 11th, 2011 12:43 am (UTC) (Link)
Definitely agree that 'dextre' and 'senestre' give a richer atmosphere for the names of the gardens. And I also agree that Haute Tour has a nice heroic sound to it. Here in Quebec, a fair number of place-names have 'haut' or 'haute' in them, so for me it is fitting in the name of an old building.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 11th, 2011 04:05 am (UTC) (Link)
I knew I remembered "dextre" and "senestre" (because people thought that bringing in the English "sinister" was a prejudice against left-handed people)! I agree with the old forms for the gardens, then.

I knew I'd seen "haute" as a a first word with something other than "couture"!
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: September 11th, 2011 04:07 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah--I'm interested. I think the names can legitimately be weird or old fashioned (how many Severuses, really, are there in England?), but cultural, geographical, linguistic stuff--I speak ZERO French; it's even worse than my Spanish.

So, it would be Jardin de la main dextre, etc?

Now, I just have to figure out if the hypothetical figure in the garden is facing upward, in which case on the map, it will all be a mirror--with the "left" side being on the right of the map! Or if I just want to do it so it doesn't need any explanation...

Edited at 2011-09-11 04:08 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous) Date: September 11th, 2011 08:01 am (UTC) (Link)
Yup, "Jardin de la Main Dextre/Senestre" and "Jardin du Pied Dextre/Senestre".
-Sylvia
sidealong From: sidealong Date: September 14th, 2011 05:34 pm (UTC) (Link)

as for left and right

Perhaps base the orientation around the left and right bank of the Seine River? Not sure which direction your building is facing though.

Orienting from the building to the garden, it would make sense that the left side of the person is on the left. (Backwards on the map.) I don't think you'd want the person facing into the ground.
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