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Golden Mean -- edits? - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Golden Mean -- edits?
I'm going through "Golden Mean," and I'm about up to Chapter Four. The main thing I'm working on are things that feel emotionally off-kilter in it now that the back story has been written. So... anything that, on reflection, really seems to need fixing? Continuity matters other than the emotional stuff are good, too.

Thanks!
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mistralcat From: mistralcat Date: January 6th, 2015 03:38 am (UTC) (Link)
You've probably realized this already, but the whole Haymitch/Effie relationship is different in TGM than in These Are the Names. Effie in general, really. That was the biggest thing, for me. I missed TAtN Effie! I realize she'd been affected by the pills and Capitol Dreams, but she felt like a completely different character, which makes sense, since you hadn't been in her head yet.

Edited at 2015-01-06 03:40 am (UTC)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 6th, 2015 04:18 am (UTC) (Link)
Most of it is because of the neural re-boot from the Capitol, but could you mention specific things that I need to put in/take out?
mistralcat From: mistralcat Date: January 6th, 2015 03:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hmm...maybe it's less that Effie is off, and more Haymitch's reactions to her. He doesn't seem to like her - he actually says he doesn't at one point - and he reacts to her like an annoying buzzkill instead of someone who he cares about but who has changed through no fault of her own.

There's also the part where Haynitch is first talking to Katniss and thinks about Digger: "I don't know if it would have gone anywhere, but I liked her well enough." Would he really have thought that about Digger?
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 6th, 2015 10:53 pm (UTC) (Link)

if

Fern may have an entirely different thought about the Digger thing
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 6th, 2015 10:58 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Let's try this again; lj is being wonky today.

Fern may have a completely different take on the Digger situation, but, for what it's worth: It's been 24 years. Even while Haymitch is using her token as something to keep himself steady in TLT, she's become this...idealized image of everything he could have had. She's taken on so much significance as the symbol of what his life could have been, even as his recollections of the actual person get hazier and hazier. So, while she has come to hold one of the most important places in his life, he's not actually sure that she, as a living individual, would have held nearly such a crucial place, because he can't separate her from all the baggage.

Just my .02, made less clear I'm certain from lack of sleep.
Queen_Bellatrix
mistralcat From: mistralcat Date: January 7th, 2015 04:01 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Yes, definitely she may have. But it was something that jumped out at me as ringing emotionally false. They went through the toasting ceremony in The End of the World - I just don't think "liked her well enough" covers that.

Edited at 2015-01-07 04:02 am (UTC)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 7th, 2015 05:00 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

It could well be a factor, but it needs to be clear that it's what he's doing. I'm also planning to have him tell Peeta about that toasting... before Peeta pulls off his brilliant lie on Caesar's show.

I'm also re-working some of the history with Finnick, and currently re-doing a conversation in Ch. 4 with Cinna that makes it seem like Haymitch doesn't know the Capitol as well as he turned out to.
mistralcat From: mistralcat Date: January 7th, 2015 05:17 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Oh, good, I remember that now. Also, I don't know if it was in Golden Mean or later, but a couple of times you mentioned that Haymitch and the other victors joined the rebellion during a meeting in an alley with Plutarch, and I got the impression that it was somewhat recent (Johanna was there, I think). That doesn't track with The Hanging Tree, etc, it seems to me, unless I've really misunderstood something (which is quite possible).
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 7th, 2015 05:26 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Yeah, I never could work up to that meeting. They did all meet with him during times Effie didn't see, but whenever I tried to sneak it in, it didn't work. (They were rebels before, but Plutarch got them much more organized.) So I'll change that.
mistralcat From: mistralcat Date: January 7th, 2015 05:44 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Ah - that makes sense.
From: queen_bellatrix Date: January 8th, 2015 10:23 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: if

Ah, I have to apologize. I didn't read the quote you posted as carefully as I should have; I was remembering a bit in one of the fics where he essentially says that he certainly believed her to be the love of his life at sixteen, but she never lived long enough for him to find out if she was or not. The beginning of your quote looked similar to what prefaced that, and I just assumed it was the quote I was remembering and that you were wondering why he wasn't self-aware enough, considering the toasting etc. etc. to *know* she'd been the love of his life. Goes to show what happens when one assumes and then can't log in to edit.:)
From: queen_bellatrix Date: January 8th, 2015 10:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Part of these, I'm reposting; I left a comment on the F8 edits post, but wasn't sure if you got it, and thought having a list all in one place might help anyway.:)

There're a couple of times where you refer to Blight as Blight Lawrence, rather than Hedge. There's also a scene in the Capitol where Haymitch/Blight have one last drink; it was just a throw-away scene originally, but considering there shared history, you may want to give that more weight?

There's a mention in GM that, along with pulling his teeth (Haymitch thinks that happened in his original prep, when it actually happened in the interview one, but that can be accounted for by time passing easily enough.), they also had to call in experts to clear up an infection in his eyes. That's never mentioned in EOTW, so maybe just leave it at the teeth?

GM is where the different Games number for Mags is given (the eleventh instead of the seventh when they're watching her tape), so you'll want to be on the alert for that.

I also found the bit where Haymitch refers to how long Beckett was in the District. His original count was three years; it's just after Thread says that if Gail poaches again, he'll be shot, and Haymitch says that a lot of people were shot in the three years after his Games. In actuality, with the HT timeline, she leaves after Merl/Kay's wedding, which takes place, from what I could tell, after the 55th Games. (It may take place just before, but it definitely takes place in the year of the 55th.) So, she came in the year of the quell, which would put her there for about six years?

And Effie; the numbers around Effie's employment get a bit skewed in GM. We know she took over at the 59th, so, counting that as her first, it seems that the 75th would actually be her seventeenth Games, which means she's been with Haymitch for the last sixteen? Since you give several different numbers in the fic, just trying to give you some to reference back too.

Oh, and just after Chaff kisses Katniss, when he's referencing how Chaff kissed some of the other Victors, he says that he didn't find out what was happening to Finn until the 70th with the mut attack, but he seemed pretty clear what was going on at the 67th, when Finn was first with the actress etc. etc. So you may have to revise that bit.
From: queen_bellatrix Date: January 8th, 2015 11:03 am (UTC) (Link)
In chapter 1 (and you've probably grabbed this already, but I wanted to be safe rather than sorry), Haymitch is thinking about how Cinna is meeting with Finnick by pretending to be one of his "friends" But you make it pretty clear in the backstory that Finn's services are only required at the games, and only given by Snow, which makes it tricky for that to work with Cinna; maybe something under cover of being Finn's designer?

Another Finn-related thing, and again, you may very well have caught, but in chapter 11, you have Haymitch talking about seeing if Effie's seen him in the Capitol lately; again, just the fact that it seems like he's being held in very exclusive reserve for the games so there's always demand (and I can't believe I just had to write those words around a person)

Also, when they're in Four in chapter four (just not sure if you're this far into the chapter yet), Haymitch is talking about Finn's code. He says that they toyed with a number of them, and the way he phrases the next paragraph makes it seem like Finn's is the only one being used currently; I know he's probably just saying it is the best, but that phrasing always rang a bit off, for what it's worth, especially with the later fics.

The whole bit in chapter 16 where Haymitch is asking Peeta how he got into the alliance the year before and if he talked to them in training may need to be excised or heavily revised since he saw it all last year?

There's a bit in that questioning sequence in chapter 18 where Snow asks if he can call Haymitch Haymitch instead of Mr. Abernathy; Haymitch naturally says no, and Snow reverts to Mr. Abernathy. But it rings a bit odd, in relation to the other fics, because Snow hasn't once called Haymitch by his given name, or asked to (yeah, I erm took the excuse to reread all the Haymitch/Snow scenes under the pretense of checking.:d) Maybe if you need it there for some reason--to set Haymitch at ease maybe?--have him think about how weird a segue it is?


In chapter 16, Haymitch has a bit about his dynamic with Finn and Jo, right after Finn is excited that he actually has a week of freedom in the capitol; he's thinking that they treat him like a n older relative they let hang about. You could definitely still have that, considering Finn and Jo's obvious teasing with Haymitch in a parental role while they were siblings in TLT, but even in TLT where we were getting Haymitch being pretty unreliable, there dynamic felt...deeper than that.

And then of course, there are other things/people like Jack; I'm not sure how much you're going to want to go back and interweave some of the personal history where Jack and some of the others are concerned, so I'm not sure how much to mention there. The way you have it set up isn't exactly emotionally off; we definitely get the sense that they have a shared bond as victors, but it seemed, in the prequels, that they also developed fairly deep bonds as friends/rebels.

Another thing in that in-between category: every time you have Haymitch remembering the Seam/life on it, it's in a rather distant way. But even in TLT, he remembered things with quite a bit of clarity (as an example of what I'm talking about, there's a bit where he's covering the trips with contraband food in chapter 11 where he's talking about being out of town for so long he's forgotten how hard times could be/being cold and hungry etc. etc. But the way he talked to Effie after the mine accident in TANT, he remembered it better than he maybe wanted to, at least imho)

Those are all I'm coming up with at the moment; I wish I had time for a proper reread, so I could be of more help. And I'm sorry for the lack of emotional suggestions, but most of the things that felt emotionally off were his lack of recollections of people, which you're planning to rectify. Although, on that note, you'll have to watch out for that bit where Haymitch tells Hazelle that he hasn't had anything but gropes in Capitol bars since Digger; both Mimi and Violet very much contradict that.
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 8th, 2015 05:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Just a little thing about Games numbering:

About halfway through chapter 15 of 'Golden Mean', Lyme says she won the 31st Games, but in the list you posted later she won the 39th (and Earl Bates from D10 won the 31st). You might want to check that.

-Papillon82
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