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Dumbledore question - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Dumbledore question
Okay, I'm re-reading "The Centaur and the Sneak" as I'm running up toward that section of the calendar in Shifts and McGonagall asks Dumbledore if he's going to Grimmauld Place. Dumbledore responds:

"Oh, no," said Dumbledore, with a grim smile, "I am not leaving to go into hiding. Fudge will soon wish he'd never dislodged me from Hogwarts, I promise you."


So, er... what exactly did Dumbledore do over the next couple of months? Things could be easily hidden from Harry, since the Prophet is in Fudge's pocket and it's the only newspaper that comes (if even that comes), but if he doesn't go to the Order, where does he go?

For myself, I'm going to have him check in with the Order, then go off and start dealing face to face with foreign governments, discrediting Fudge and telling the truth to as many people as possible, while disappearing with Fawkes as soon as anyone from the Ministry appeared. I may also suggest (though not show) that he goes to speak to the Muggle government (I'd guess to the Queen, since the PM would only have access through the official Ministry channels, while the monarchy as an institution might have ties to the magical world going back to Merlin and Arthur, though of course the families have changed). But what do other people think? I never gave the slightest thought to it before today's re-read.
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Comments
From: arwencordelia Date: January 25th, 2005 01:35 am (UTC) (Link)
I like the fan speculation that Dumbledore's "home base" during that time was the Hog's Head pub (rumoured to be run by his brother Aberforth). But then, he's going into hiding just as much as if he'd gone to 12 Grimmauld Place (which has the added advantage of being protected by Fidelius).
ashtur From: ashtur Date: January 25th, 2005 01:38 am (UTC) (Link)
I'd always assumed that he meant to "get the truth out", turning up his efforts from what he'd been doing to that point (since he no longer had a reason to protect his position).

On the other hand, while it's easy to imagine Harry not hearing about that (with Umbridge's news blackout), the frenzy at the end of the book sure seems like the wizard on the street hadn't truly begun to take things seriously.

I like your idea of running off to other Ministries, and I can imagine Fudge's frustration...
"Minister, we just got an owl from the Italian Minister of Magic about You-know-who"
beaustylo From: beaustylo Date: January 25th, 2005 01:45 am (UTC) (Link)

Dumbledore's whereabouts

Ooh, I'm glad you asked because I was just rereading the end of OotP the other day and came across the passage where I believe JKR leaves one of her sneaky clues about Dumbledore's whereabouts. In the scene where Hermione "confesses", Umbridge asks if she knows where Dumbledore is and Hermione answers:

"Well...no...We've tried the Leaky Cauldron in Diagon Alley and the Three Broomsticks and even the Hog's Head-"

And Umbridge replies: "Idiot girl, Dumbledore won't be sitting in a pub when the whole Ministry's looking for him!"

But, of course, that's exactly where he'd be, considering we now have J.K.'s confirmation on her website that the barkeep at the Hog's Head is none other than Aberforth Dumbledore.

Seriously though, I do think this is a pretty big clue on Jo's part. She specifically has Hermione name all of the bars when more logically she might have named any number of places. And then she's cutoff just as she mentions the Hog's Head. It seems just like the type of clue Rowling loves to use.

And the Hog's Head would be a good place to hideout because Dumbledore would be able to remain near Hogwarts, have a place to stay, and keep on top of the news from various circles (considering the diverse crowd that frequents the Hog's Head). That's not to say that he wouldn't occasionally leave as you suggested to visit foreign ministries and such.
siegeofangels From: siegeofangels Date: January 25th, 2005 01:57 am (UTC) (Link)
It does sound like he's going to go and stir up trouble for Fudge, which would mean discrediting him, which . . . yeah, would sound like spreading the word. The only weird thing is that a lot of the time it seems like Voldemort is only England's problem, whereas if you think about it for two seconds, it really seems like he could be an issue for all of Europe, if not the world. So Dumbledore going to either the Muggle government or foreign governments, that would make sense.

Either that or putting itchy-pants hexes on Fudge.

By the by, have you seen fanthropology? I thought you might be interested, since you write such interesting posts about fandom.
daisan From: daisan Date: January 25th, 2005 02:03 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh, I can't tell you how much I love the idea of the monarchy being tied to the wizarding world through the legacy of Arthur and Merlin.

That's all I have, sorry. No deep contributions. :)
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: January 25th, 2005 04:17 am (UTC) (Link)
My theory was based on Hermione's frequent harping "no one can Apparate or Disapparate from Hogwarts" and a very very subtle comment made by Dumbledore in PS/SS. "I don't need an cloak to become invisible".

I thought he might very well have stayed on campus, having made some arrangement for Fawkes. Dobby would have gladly provided the necessities.

However, my children prevailed: Fawkes is a method of transport for AD - it's how he got to the MOM. The portraits in his office complained about being bored in his absence. My children are much smarter than I, apparently.

But the poster who said "Hogs Head" is probably right. That's a classic Jo-istic hint.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 25th, 2005 04:31 am (UTC) (Link)
But at the Hog's Head doing what? If he's planning to make Fudge sorry for booting him, he must have some plan of action! And yet, nothing seems to happen.
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: January 25th, 2005 05:03 am (UTC) (Link)

Well, what would terrify Fudge?

Raise an army.

He's probably not in good with the centaurs right (re: Fierenze) but the goblins? The elves? The giants?
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 25th, 2005 04:39 am (UTC) (Link)
Dumbledore might have already been cultivating other wizard governments. Fudge forcing him out would put him in a position where he no longer had to be guarded to protect his position at Hogwarts (and, through it, Harry) or from ethical obligations (like a member of a cabinet who might disagree heatedly with the commander-in-chief in private but feels you either maintain certain degrees of unity and respect in public or you resign and fight from without). Since Dumbledore already had plans he was ready to act on when he was removed, I wonder if he hadn't been giving the matter a lot of thought and was trying to find some way to deal with his obligations to Harry and the students and his obligation to fight Voldemort on a larger front.

From that POV, Dumbledore's removal was actually a good thing, and I'm not sure if I want to see it that. But there you are.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: January 25th, 2005 06:06 am (UTC) (Link)
Hey, I sometimes feel half the book consists of things that either backfire or offer spectacular methods of doing so but haven't got around to it yet.... ;)
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 25th, 2005 05:57 pm (UTC) (Link)
I love the idea of Dumbledore going off to talk with foreign governments - I bet he has loads of pals in the upper echelons of power - but if you intend your fic to be set in sort-of real Muggle Britain, then talking to the Queen would be pretty useless.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 25th, 2005 07:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
It may be useless, but it would also be symbolic, and would exploit an older order than the current one.
From: falco_999 Date: January 25th, 2005 07:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ooops. Sorry - so your Muggle world is a sort of slightly parallel universe - like JKR's, in fact? ;) + *embarassed smile smiley which I don't know how to do*
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 25th, 2005 09:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
More or less. Basically, I think what he could do is plausible. The Minister's relationship is with the PM. Dumbledore's is with the Queen. The Queen, who is the beneficiary of the longer tradition, can get access to the PM and inform him of the situation in the magical world, and put a disconnect between Fudge and the information getting to the Muggle government. In other words, Dumbledore is using Her Royal Majesty to deliver messages, as far as practical work is concerned.

(Whether I actually get into it or not in Shifts, and I probably won't, my thought is that there's a kind of old magical power attached to the throne which isn't attached to the more secular Ministries. It's nothing that's been used for centuries--in fact, because the magical world has flatly withheld it since Arthur--but still exists through the institution, and the reigning monarch, if she is acting in the interest of the people instead of herself, is able to call on that magic in a kind of sympathetic sense. Nothing that people would know about, of course. More something private--she could be a Sin-Eater of sorts or something to calm the country down when it needs it. I don't know. I haven't really thought it through. But a monarchy, being totally alien to me, strikes me as having roots in irrationalism and magic, so it may as well have a magial function in a world where magic exists. Besides, I like Elizabeth II. ;))
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: January 25th, 2005 09:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Er, that would be Her Royal Highness, wouldn't it, rather than Majesty?

:is in alien territory:
From: (Anonymous) Date: January 26th, 2005 01:40 am (UTC) (Link)
I've got a copy of "What Jane Auste Ate and Charles Dickens New." It says you address the ruling monarch as "your majesty" and the monarch's spouse, children, and siblings as "your royal highness."
From: falco_999 Date: January 26th, 2005 05:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
The second anonymous is right - it is your majesty. Thank you for the explanation.
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