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Drabbles, weird Fidelius thought - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
Drabbles, weird Fidelius thought
I did some drabbles for hpgen100's Witches Gone Wild challenge, all focused on the ladies of the House of Black (Andromeda, Mrs. Black, Narcissa and Bella, Tonks).

If Fidelius hides people in a house even from people looking right at them, then could two people both be living in the same house under Fidelius without either one knowing the other was there unless a Secret Keeper gave it away?
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lannamichaels From: lannamichaels Date: March 18th, 2005 06:55 am (UTC) (Link)
They might, but then they'd be constantly in the dark as to who keeps putting the toilet seat up.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: March 18th, 2005 06:56 am (UTC) (Link)
Or who left the milk carton cooling with only a swallow left... (Or for that matter, who keeps restocking the groceries.)
lannamichaels From: lannamichaels Date: March 18th, 2005 06:58 am (UTC) (Link)
Maybe they'd think that they just had a really tidy ghost. Or just a really domestic one who was shy enough to never be seen haunting around.

So then they'd call Ghostbusters!
truebluespark From: truebluespark Date: March 18th, 2005 07:23 am (UTC) (Link)
And the Ghostbusters would show up and not be able to see either one!
dudley_doright From: dudley_doright Date: March 18th, 2005 07:26 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, I mean...the Muggles don't notice (er, we don't notice) the knight bus because they don't want to see it, or at least that's what I got from the exchange. I guess it's the same sort of psychological blocking with the Fidelius.

What I want to know is, when we heard Fidelius defined, it sounded like it could be used to protect any piece of information. But in practice, it only ever seems to defend places. Could the prophecy have been placed under Fidelius, to cite one example?
tunxeh From: tunxeh Date: March 18th, 2005 07:38 am (UTC) (Link)
Fidelius is performed on the house, not on its inhabitants, right? If so, there is only one secret to share, and both people would be in on the secret, so they would see each other, just like all the people who read Dumbledore's note can see each other in Grimmauld. If you tried to perform two separate Fideliuses on the house then I think the inhabitants would need to be in on both secrets to live there, so it still doesn't work.
lucie_p From: lucie_p Date: March 18th, 2005 12:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
That's what I think as well.

People cannot see someone who is in a house hidden by the Fidelius because they cannot see the house at all. The houses next to GP12 seemed to move over, make room for it, when it appeared to Harry for the first time.

But once you are able to see the house in question, you should be able to see anyone inside of it / on a balcony / at a window.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: March 18th, 2005 02:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
I had the sense that the house appeared that way from one of the other security charms--I doubt the Blacks would have allowed their house to be visible to Muggles. When Harry was told about the house, he was able to see through the security, but I don't think the security was necessarily part of Fidelius. When Fidelius was described in PoA, they said that a person could look into the windows of the house and not see the people hiding there.
izhilzha From: izhilzha Date: March 18th, 2005 05:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
See, I thought that in PoA, the description of Fidelius was in reference to using it to protect people on the run, like the Potters. In that case, it would seem logical to me that someone could have walked into Godric's Hollow and not seen James or Lily at all.

However, iirc, the secret being kept by Fidelius in OotP is in the LOCATION of the Black mansion...so it would seem logical that no one the Secret Keeper has not spoken to could see it (even if they had previously lived there!) and anyone who the Secret Keeper had told would be the only ones who could find Grimmauld Place itself.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: March 18th, 2005 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
I thought the note was to say that the headquarters of the Order were there?
izhilzha From: izhilzha Date: March 18th, 2005 10:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Darn, I think you're right (I'm at work, sans books). Honestly, I'm not sure what the point of putting the Fidelius on at all was, then, unless the other security measures are even more powerful than I gathered. All it would prevent is loose lips (under duress or not) revealing a *connection between* Grimmauld Place and the Order. Yes? Which is still a good reason to do it, I suppose.

Hmmm. Must go reread some of OotP and ponder this.
dramaturgy From: dramaturgy Date: March 18th, 2005 11:29 am (UTC) (Link)
Well. Er. I suppose that would depend on whether or not Magic > Physics.
author_by_night From: author_by_night Date: March 18th, 2005 12:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think the last one was my favorite - hehe!
erised1810 From: erised1810 Date: March 18th, 2005 09:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
huh?? there hwoudl have to be two diffeetn fidelius charms involved woudl there? I' mnow hvinimmense difficult plot bunnie siwtinvolvign three different secret-keepers, memory charms, alto of confusig nan the concept of fidelius maign people unable to see the secret-kept ones.
erised1810 From: erised1810 Date: March 18th, 2005 09:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
and now ibelive we also real ynedto know mroe about fidelius.

i believei njame and lilys' case the char mwas placed on THEM. or on the mere information of 'james and lil yare here.' whereas in ootp it' the information of' this hosue is the headquarters of the order of the phoenix.
I'm c onvinced some logic expert or other can find ahuge hole inthis (as is usual ythe case iwth some of teh c ontinuity plots). jsut how doessomeone fele who kused to know the black hosue and suddenl ycant' recall it any more? is it real yaffectign everyoen's memory like that ,of everyone who knew the place?
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 20th, 2005 04:07 am (UTC) (Link)
In terms of Grimmauld Place, is it the Fidelius charm or the fact that it is Unplottable that prevents people from seeing it? I, too, think the Fidelius is for people rather than places. In that sense, then you could share a house with someone and not know it.

Though, once Peter was made secret-keeper for the Potters, does that mean no-one could find them unless Peter told them? Even Sirius and Lupin? Even Dumbledore? If so, this suggests they were killed almost immediately after the Fidelius charm was activated (sorry, getting a bit off-topic here). It would be interesting to have a bit of a timeline about when the prophecy was made, when the decision to use a secret-keeper was made, when Sirius handed over to Peter, when the charm was performed, when the attack happened - thinking about it now, it seems like it would have all happened pretty quickly...?
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