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What's up with Voldemort's kids? - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
What's up with Voldemort's kids?
Okay, pottersues has a Snape's daughter Sue up today, and she apparently hooks up with Voldemort's son.

Now, I've gone on at length recently about my opinion on Snape and romance, which has vast implications for his reproductive activities, but that's speculation, and there's always the remote possibility that I'm wrong, and he really is a dance club swinger with an illegitimate daughter in every town in Western Europe. But as to Voldemort, isn't it a fairly large plot point in CoS that he is the only living descendant of Salazar Slytherin? If he is the only living descendant, he can't have kids, because, you know, they'd also be descendants of Salazar Slytherin. I think JKR said he has no kids as well, but it would be superfluous if she did, since canon establishes it.

I feel a bit...: high Oh, please...

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Comments
purple_ladybug1 From: purple_ladybug1 Date: March 27th, 2005 10:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
You're right. That is a main point of CoS. Maybe since it's not explicitly written out, people don't quite get it. *shrugs* I know that kind of thing happens a lot in rl, so in fanfiction...
sonetka From: sonetka Date: March 27th, 2005 10:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah, that pesky canon. Actually that "only living descendant" meme chokes off just about every potential Sue-relative Voldemort could have, unless someone wants to write one about Voldemort's all-Muggle Riddle cousin. I suppose there would be an outside chance of a putative-father situation; Tom Riddle thinks the kid is his, but the biological father is actually someone else, so the DNA involved does not in fact have anything to do with Salazar Slytherin. I can't really buy that one, though; first of all, I imagine there must be some magical way to discern biological paternity - it just seems like the kind of thing they'd be able to do - and secondly, it would be a brave woman who would fool around behind Voldemort's back.
eir_de_scania From: eir_de_scania Date: March 27th, 2005 11:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, but what does JKR know? She only invented the Potterverse and it's characters so who is she to talk? *sigh*

Just imagine - there must be fangurls out there who would *lurve* to be Snapes or Voldies daughter *shudders*
From: magnolia_mama Date: March 28th, 2005 12:01 am (UTC) (Link)
This is fanfic, of course, where we don't need no steenkin' logic (or canon). :-)
barbara_the_w From: barbara_the_w Date: March 28th, 2005 01:45 am (UTC) (Link)
icon love!
alkari From: alkari Date: March 28th, 2005 12:08 am (UTC) (Link)
"... there's always the remote possibility that I'm wrong, and he really is a dance club swinger with an illegitimate daughter in every town in Western Europe."

Oh please Fernwithy, I need to have another large helping of chocolate after reading that Snape vision!!

But yes, I agree with your peeve about Voldemort and his supposed children. However, you know that in Fandom, "anything goes", and it doesn't matter whether or not it is canon. After all, why should we unfairly limit writers' imagination in that way? Just because JKR says something, doesn't mean that ....

Oh dear, I *do* need more chcolate!!!
author_by_night From: author_by_night Date: March 28th, 2005 12:09 am (UTC) (Link)
I don't mind fics where Snape has a kid so much, and even Voldemort's okay as long as its an AU or something... but I think both in one fic is pushing it.

(Well, okay, I really don't like Voldemort-has-a-kid fics, but I've seen one that actually worked).
sixth_light From: sixth_light Date: March 28th, 2005 12:13 am (UTC) (Link)
That's what put me off Cassie Claire's Draco trilogy. (Okay, apart from the appalling characterisation...) As soon as it was explained to me that Draco was _also_ an heir of Slytherin, because Voldemort was just, y'know, only the most direct heir, I was for the back button. Logic. It's a wonderful thing. I wish more people used it.
mctabby From: mctabby Date: March 28th, 2005 12:22 am (UTC) (Link)
There's also the point that Voldemort probably wouldn't want/need an heir(ess), because he's all about being immortal! Or trying to be immortal, at least. Duh.

None of these arguments work on "Voldie's daughter" Sue-writers.

From: pyxidis Date: March 28th, 2005 12:46 am (UTC) (Link)
Ah, he is the only living decendent in CoS, but that doesn't rule out him having children later. Because, of course, Voldemort is a great multitasker, he has pleanty of time to take over the magical and wizarding worlds, rule his minions, kill that pesky Harry Potter kid, as well as go courting, start a family and be the worlds best dad. Gee, he just went way up in my estimation.
barbara_the_w From: barbara_the_w Date: March 28th, 2005 01:46 am (UTC) (Link)
Or having descendants... previously. Nothing says that infanticide wasn't in Tommy's gameplan...
From: pyxidis Date: March 28th, 2005 01:52 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh sure! Maybe the fanfiction children are like Cronus and Zeus. He tried to kill them all, but there is always the one that got away...
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: March 28th, 2005 01:45 am (UTC) (Link)
*shrug* A few years ago, I gave Voldemort a nonmagical daughter by a Muggle girlfriend he was essentially using, shortly after Hogwarts, to assist in making Dumbledore's suspicions of him (had Dumbledore voiced them) look ridiculous. Not someone the wizarding world was aware of, as neither Dumbledore nor Riddle knew the girl was pregnant when Riddle dropped her. Thus, she would have had no effect on the CoS plot. There's no compelling reason other than JKR's direct statement that she couldn't coexist in mutual oblivion with canon, and she predates that interview.

I probably would have found another way to kick off my AU if I'd been aware that Voldemort's Daughters were a recognized class of Mary Sue, I suppose, unless I'd been feeling particularly defiant at the time. But I really don't think she was any more intrinsically absurd an invention, at the time, than "Muggleborn" Dean Thomas's unknown wizarding father would have been -- except that the latter would have made me look creepily prescient.
sonetka From: sonetka Date: March 28th, 2005 03:16 am (UTC) (Link)
Actually, that raises a really interesting question; would a nonmagical descendant of Slytherin "count" as Slytherin's heir, especially considering Slytherinic views on the importance of purebloodedness? You know, like some of those fun families who like to distinguish between "adopted" and "real" children, damn them. Added to which would be the fact that while technically a nonmagical child would be an heir, there wouldn't be much they could do about it.

Is your story posted anywhere?
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: March 28th, 2005 03:25 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, she certainly wouldn't count for anything that required doing magic, much less speaking Parseltongue.

Is your story posted anywhere?

Yeah, it was my first Harry Potter fanfic "Who We Are," first in the Time's Riddle series. (Alan Sauer joined in afterward.) There are problems with it that are entirely independent of Voldemort's having a daughter -- the pacing is peculiar at best and I didn't really have a handle on HP dialogue at the time -- but the whole thing is essentially an excuse to get to where Voldemort came back to life early (start of Harry's third year) and made the tactical error of casting an "illusion" of himself at twelve that was a little too realistic and wound up listening to Harry and wanting to be the real one.

I came in from comic-book fanfic. "Start at Point X and do your own version" didn't really bug most people too much there. Possibly because the source material occasionally appeared to be doing it too.
dreagoddess From: dreagoddess Date: March 28th, 2005 02:38 am (UTC) (Link)
Well...technically, the only person we heard Voldie was the last remaining Heir of Slytherin from was Dumbledore, I think. Well, YoungTom might've said something about it, but he could've had children after age 16. ;) So as long as Dumbledore doesn't know about the kid, CoS is okay, right? I still think you should be careful with the category, but it CAN be done well.
gehayi From: gehayi Date: March 28th, 2005 02:45 am (UTC) (Link)
It's not the fact that Voldemort has kids, despite the fact that it's canonically impossible.

No. What gets me is that Voldemort is always a sentimental, doting daddy.

No, people. No. Voldemort is not a loving and giving person who just needs a hug to make him all better. He's insane. He's obsessed with immortality. He wants to take over the world, and to kill and enslave all the inhabitants thereof. He's a megalomaniacal, homicidal psychopath.

He is NOT going to love li'l Zorina Yolande Xylona Wallis Viviane Undine Theophilia Sydney Rowena Querida Phoenix Odette Nyx Megara Lilith Ketura Jewel Ivy Hyacinth Gwendolyn Faith Eponine Demeter Cleopatra Blaise Athene Riddle-Malfoy-Potter-Snape. Not even if she is a gorgeous demi-deified Child of Destiny (TM) with an I.Q. higher than Einstein's who EVERYBODY loves. Voldemort is not capable of love. That's his weakness. (Well, one of them. Being massively stupid and making every mistake on the Evil Overlord List both count, in my book.) Also, Voldemort tried to kill one Child of Destiny when the boy was a year and a half old, so I think Voldemort has made it clear what he thinks of Children of Destiny and of babies.

He really is not going to turn into a loving daddy from some bloody sitcom. Not under any circumstances.

Can you TRY to remember that, Suethors?

persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: March 28th, 2005 03:27 am (UTC) (Link)
At least one version of the Evil Overlord List includes something along the lines of "I will go kill the Child of Destiny myself instead of assigning it to a subordinate who will somehow bungle the job." You've got to give him credit for trying on that one. ;)
murgatroyd314 From: murgatroyd314 Date: March 28th, 2005 07:21 am (UTC) (Link)
As far as I am aware, we have only Dumbledore's word that Voldemort is the last descendant of Slytherin. It's possible, if unlikely, that Dumbledore could be mistaken. However, if Voldemort did have a child, love could not be involved.

Q: Has Voldemort or Tom Riddle ever cared for or loved anyone?
A: Now, that's a cracking question to end with—very good. No, never. If he had, he couldn't possibly be what he is. You will find out a lot more about that.
-From an interview with JKR.
From: (Anonymous) Date: March 29th, 2005 03:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
Having a child and being capable of love are not, unfortunately, linked. No, I don't think Voldemort has a child. If he weren't the LAST descendent of Slytherin, I could believe in a distant cousin or so, what with all the Pureblood families being interrelated. But Rowling has spoken. The only way I can imagine him having a child is if he found an immortality potion recipe that said you had to toss in your own son or daughter.

As for Snape, I'm not sure if I gave him a daughter or not in a story. Before Mrs. LeStrange turned out to be Bellatrix Black LeStrange, I had wondered if she might be Snape's older sister (I thought Rowling leaving her school days name out was suspicious. I didn't realize it was Sirius bit wanting to bring up the connection. Oh, well). Anyhow, she'd had a daughter that Snape became guardian of when she went to jail. The girl used the last name Snape and refered to Snape as her father because he'd legally adopted her, and Snape encouraged anything that didn't play up the LeStrange connection.

The real story was that Snape had made a homunuculus (which I've probably spelled wrong), a magically created child. He got his sister to claim the child as hers, which she did because this was connected to research for the Dark Lord (she never cared about the child). Snape did have some feelings for her, although it was a difficult relationship.

I don't know if that counts? No swinging lifestyle and definitely no relationship with the mother. Also, the girl was about as sweet as an acid burn, a true chip off the old block.
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