?

Log in

No account? Create an account
entries friends calendar profile Previous Previous Next Next
R/T thoughts - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
R/T thoughts
Well, my last post, the R/T ficlet in which Tonks learns Remus is a werewolf, didn't quiet my brain on the subject as much as I thought I would, so here are some fairly random thoughts I have about them, both as friends and as a potential romantic pairing.


  1. I don't draw a big distinction between the friendship and the romance. They become friends, become very used to one another, and at some point cross a line. I see an eventual marriage between them as being comfortable, like an old shoe or a warm blanket to wrap up in, because it has so many years of growing together behind it. It's just sort of a logical outgrowth.

  2. There's something just nice about the way they interact. I think they come off to me as two people who've known one another for a long time because Remus doesn't act alone when he's with her. He acts like he's used to her. And it would be nice for him to be with someone. Maybe as a single, all-alone thirtysomething, the thought that there might yet be someone nice and comfy out there for me is pretty darned nice, if in the realm of fantasy at this late date. And maybe as a single woman with a pronounced eccentric streak (she says after writing a ficlet about Merry Brandybuck and the Buffybot), it's nice to think that there could be a kind, single guy with a high tolerance for flights of fantasy, who's not too old out there somewhere. So it's a good fantasy for me from both sides.

  3. They seem to have a shared value system, not just about the Dark Arts, but about being kind to people and trying to make them feel comfortable. When both people are concerned with this, then they'll have a rather dull, but happy life. When both people are confrontational, they probably will have a fiery relationship, but can hold their own with one another. But when one is concerned with kindness and the other with fieriness, it ends up with one person making all the compromises. I think that with them both valuing the way other people feel, they're likely to have the first sort of relationship--coming to agreements with one another, trying to make one another happy as a way of being individually happy rather than as the thing to balance against individual happiness. I like that in a ship.

  4. While they share a core similarity, they also have difference in style that gives a nice fullness to the ship. I think of them like kite flying--he anchors her, and she keeps him looking upward instead of downward.

  5. In the end, I think it's just that I like both of them as characters, and if I knew them in the real world, I'd like them. I think they are the sort of people who could be quite happy together, and the sort of people I would very desperately want to be happy.


I guess that's it. Well, one other thing. I've noticed that I haven't seen many fics (other than mine) where they knew one another for a long time. That kind of surprises me... it never occurred to me that they just met.


Snagged from mafdet
Ollivanders - Maker of Fine Wands Since 382 B.C. by media_darling
Name/LJ User Name
Birthday
Which House do you think you would be in?
This wand will choose youHolly (famous for its protection qualities and guiding dream magic) - 15 inches, Unicorn tail hair core.
Created with quill18's MemeGen 3.0!
19 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
myf From: myf Date: April 1st, 2004 10:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
*falls in love with both of them all over again* I love how you describe Remus as anchoring her.

Other fics I've read treat their acquaintance as that they have met each other a few times, but not while Sirius was in Azkaban. I think that's also a valid point of interpreting things.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 1st, 2004 11:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, it's totally valid.

(No!!! No point of view that isn't mine can be valid!!!! ;))

I don't mean to sound like I think it isn't valid, it's just one that never occurred to me while I was reading through, and it surprised me that it doesn't seem to be a common view. I don't expect anything to be universal in any fandom, least of all an interpretation of a relationship in Harry Potter. It just struck me odd that very few people seem to assume a long relationship.
myf From: myf Date: April 2nd, 2004 03:46 am (UTC) (Link)
*laughs as we both manage to misinterpret each other*

I never meant to imply that you're so precious about this! Sorry!

But while it's true that that particular aspect of Remusfics is valid, there is often so many others that aren't. So t's actually refreshing to think that there is at least one area where most interpretations are plausible.
ladyaeryn From: ladyaeryn Date: April 1st, 2004 10:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
(Hey, your birthday's not too far from Harry's. Nifty. I've got Ron's.)

Your analysis makes me want to go re-read parts of OotP - I'm not against R/T, but I've simply never picked up on anything. Then again, I am also the person who completely forgot prior to TPM that Amidala=Padme, so it's not as if less subtle things have escaped me before. ;)

Even amidst your proclaimed apathy to shipping as a whole, somehow you manage several whole posts on it. *amused* :) It's like a disease, I tell you...
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 1st, 2004 11:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
Even amidst your proclaimed apathy to shipping as a whole, somehow you manage several whole posts on it. *amused* :) It's like a disease, I tell you...

I know, it really is. Where I get annoyed is when one ship is sailing cheerfully along in international waters, and another one opens fire for no good reason. That's what sets me off on these things. I'm perfectly content to just have a fun little romantic fantasy going on, and to let other people have their fun little romantic fantasies. I don't think it's important. I like R/T just because I like the way they click in the Dursleys' kitchen, but I'm not, like, advocating for JKR to hurl a canon ball at the Wolfstar. (She'd be crazy to do that.)

I don't write R/T so much for the shipping value, except in the very literal sense of "relationship"--from five year old Tonks and twenty year old Remus to middle-aged matron Tonks and patriarch Remus. I just like the way the two characters seem to interact, so I play with them a lot. The romance? In case you haven't noticed, the closest I've come is Remus noticing at the Three Broomsticks that she's not hard on the eyes. :) I'll get to it eventually because I figure it's in there, but it's not especially important to me. I'm more into Harry's reaction when Remus and Dora tell him he can be godfather to their daughter. :p
ladyaeryn From: ladyaeryn Date: April 1st, 2004 11:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
Where I get annoyed is when one ship is sailing cheerfully along in international waters, and another one opens fire for no good reason. That's what sets me off on these things. I'm perfectly content to just have a fun little romantic fantasy going on, and to let other people have their fun little romantic fantasies. I don't think it's important.

Ugh, I know. That's what's inspired a number of my rants on the topic. I certainly won't gripe if my ship ends up canon, but really, all I care about is just having fun with it, and I always make that very clear. But regardless, someone always has to come along and tell me I'm delusional/misinterpreting canon. Never minding I wasn't interfering with their own fun in the slightest.

I just like the way the two characters seem to interact, so I play with them a lot.

(Ah, that "character shipping" thing we discussed awhile back. ;)) That's what it's all about, really.

it's not especially important to me. I'm more into Harry's reaction when Remus and Dora tell him he can be godfather to their daughter. :p

Now, that would be something. :D And you're right in that I haven't noticed, because I've been very lax in my fic reading lately... :/
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 2nd, 2004 12:06 am (UTC) (Link)
Ugh, I know. That's what's inspired a number of my rants on the topic. I certainly won't gripe if my ship ends up canon, but really, all I care about is just having fun with it, and I always make that very clear. But regardless, someone always has to come along and tell me I'm delusional/misinterpreting canon. Never minding I wasn't interfering with their own fun in the slightest.

Yeah. I mean, it's one thing if you're in a "safe zone" (eg, at a-p's boards, venting off frustration about Obidala--we're perfectly clear what the stance is there). It's also fair if there's an actual debate going on. But if you're just goofing around... what's the big?

I think when it comes to trying to predict ships that are likely to happen in canon, then you have the double-whammy--the ship rivalry (which I don't get), combined with the speculation rivalry (which I do, though not in the overemotional sense). With H/H v. R/H, I can at least see some people staking ground, because there's going to be an answer one way or the other in the book, and you may as well put your chips down someplace. I don't see why people would fight about it, but I can at least see them doing the, "I bet I'm right and you're wrong" thing, since it's going to be resolved, one way or the other, before the end of the series. A definitive answer is forthcoming. It's like rooting on a football game.

(Briefly remembers that Kenmore Square got socked by revellers after the Superbowl and thinks, Hmm, perhaps a bad example. ;))

But with Wolfstar vs. Wolviewotcher?

There's never going to be a call. EVER. It will remain international waters, total free play. R/S fans will take the fact that Remus lived in Sirius's house and say, "That's proof," and I'll scratch my head and say, "Um, Harry and the Weasleys all lived there, too." R/T fans will say, "Remus calls her Nymphadora by habit when no one else does!" and R/S fans will respond with, "Yeah, and she says she hates it!" And JKR isn't ever going to resolve that. It would be nutzen. So why pretend one or the other has a more "canon" base? They're both wacky.
alphabet26 From: alphabet26 Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:13 am (UTC) (Link)
R/S fans will take the fact that Remus lived in Sirius's house and say, "That's proof," and I'll scratch my head and say, "Um, Harry and the Weasleys all lived there, too." R/T fans will say, "Remus calls her Nymphadora by habit when no one else does!" and R/S fans will respond with, "Yeah, and she says she hates it!"

And the Tonks/Charlie fans will say, "Neither of them have ever, ever been annoyed with each other, said anything nasty to each other, or even denied they were in a relationship."

Then everyone else will chase us out of the fandom because really. That's too much, even for HP. ;)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:19 am (UTC) (Link)
That's true. I'm considering trying out the S.S. Remus/Molly. They were living in the same house, and she didn't yell at him, after all. Or maybe the Remus/Petunia/Vernon threesome--he leaves them a note! And no one ever said they weren't. I also think that Goyle/Trelawney is a shoo-in. No one ever said he was bad at Divination, and I'll be he just hangs out in that tower room all the time.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:21 am (UTC) (Link)
(That would all be with a big ol' wink-face. Since by JKR's oh-dear-maths, Tonks and Charlie would have been in the same year at Hogwarts, it become reasonable that they would have known each other, maybe palled around. So why not?)
alphabet26 From: alphabet26 Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:26 am (UTC) (Link)
True enough, but back when I decided to like Tonks/Charlie, we all thought Charlie was years and years older than her. It's so funny, they've never even met in canon.

I had their meeting all planned out (I think I even have the ficlet written somewhere). Charlie went to St. Mungo's to visit Arthur later in the day and Tonks for some reason had to come, too. He vaguely recognized her, she knew who Charlie Weasley was, and they had a nice chat. Then after the MoM debacle, they meet up again and the sparks fly. Or something.

It's such a nice fantasy.
alphabet26 From: alphabet26 Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:28 am (UTC) (Link)
Charlie went to St. Mungo's to visit Arthur later in the day and Tonks for some reason had to come, too

I mean on Christmas. Their first meeting happens at Christmas. Why can't we edit comments? ;)
(Deleted comment)
alphabet26 From: alphabet26 Date: April 3rd, 2004 09:46 am (UTC) (Link)
I don't know of any at all, sorry.
gehayi From: gehayi Date: April 2nd, 2004 07:36 am (UTC) (Link)
I don't care for Remus and Tonks as a couple (possibly because I view both of them as gay), but I do agree that they are good friends and that they are comfortable with each other. It's a very solid, anchoring relationship and I'm glad that they both have it, especially during the Second War with Voldemort. Also, I think that Tonks makes Remus laugh.

So yes, very, very close friends. Not sexually attracted, but very close friends. In my view, anyway.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 2nd, 2004 08:27 am (UTC) (Link)
Also, I think that Tonks makes Remus laugh.

And that's really important, especially with Remus.

I just don't see any signs that either of them is gay--we don't see either of them on a date with anyone or in a romantic relationship with anyone, and we don't live in either of their heads to know one way or the other. Nothing else is a particularly reliable sign. So I fantasize that there's such a thing as a nice, single guy who's good with kids and straight. Just a comforting fantasy of mine, I'm sure. All the ones I want are gay or married. But I'm not going to make them so in my fantasy life. :)

(Me, bitter and cyncical about men? Never.)
gehayi From: gehayi Date: April 2nd, 2004 11:03 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, I ship Sirius/Remus, so that might explain that part. I have no canonical proof; I just like the idea of two people being friends as well as lovers, and there's more evidence of friendship with Sirius.

As for Tonks...her hair coloring and attire are very similar to those of the out-of-the-closet lesbians in my neighborhood. I suppose that's where that conclusion came from. It's not a canonically-based conclusion at all.

I agree, though--Remus needs someone who will make him laugh. The poor man has had enough misery for twelve lifetimes.

mafdet From: mafdet Date: April 2nd, 2004 12:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree with you about ships lobbying "canonballs" at one another. There are confirmed canon Ships - Lily/James, Arthur/Molly, Lucius/Narcissa to name three; then there are ones I think will happen, like Ron/Hermione which JKR has dropped heavy hints about. But I doubt we're going to find out in depth about Remus' love life. Whether he's with Sirius, Tonks or Someone Else is just not that important to the story.

However, I can't help but get resentful/annoyed at the self-righteousness of some of the R/S shippers, especially the ones who attack Tonks as if she is "the other woman." After all, it's the fans who ship Remus/Tonks, therefore it's ridiculous to resent a canon fictional character for what fans do.

Anyhow. As you probably know, I'm a R/T shipper too. I just think they are a sweet couple who would be good for one another. If it happens in canon - SQUEE! If it doesn't, well, that's fine. I just want to have fun with the Ship.

What are you going to have Remus and Tonks name their daughter? I could see "your" Tonks wanting to name a son "Edward" for her dad, whom she adores, but I have the feeling she'd want to name her daughter "Mary" or something as far away from "Nymphadora" as she can get. ;)

In "my" R/T universe, their children are named Sirius, Stella, and Alastor.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: April 2nd, 2004 05:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
What are you going to have Remus and Tonks name their daughter?

Mira. Her family's star name tradition, his family's Latinate types. Also means "Marvel" or "Marvelous" (root of "miracle"). She mostly looks like him, and with Dora working as an Auror, Mira spends her days with Daddy, who is headmaster at Hogwarts, kind of following him around. She's a fixture.
erised1810 From: erised1810 Date: April 2nd, 2004 02:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
wow, that was me writing, I swear. Its'exactl ywhy I love r/t so muchbut I odnt'care if others wont'go for it of if it's going to happen in canon or not.
The two thigns that annoy me the most are the general ship-wars that arej sut nothign more han peopel stubbornl yclaimign theyré right ontheir views and the others are wrong. which results in namecallign sometimes adn other drama I've thankfuly only heard about or seen fro mthe sidelines.
Eh, te thign t hat jumped out to me latey thoug hI"m not sure why it's more annyong for me with slash ships than with het shps , is the signs of friendship oen sees inthe books or i nafic and othes hutn for the romantica/sexua lsubtext. I am god-damn SCARED to havesirus and james just plain hug in my fic because I know peopel are goignto strethc itto more!more!more! and I jsut like to have that kid nof stuff without the undertoens or overtones for once. Mabye that's mostly because Remus and/or sirisu jsut dont'look/feel/sound gay to me (which is a hard thign to say without implyign that you're putting typical sterotyped stuff to gay people)
At any rate, I just compared Remsu and Tonks to each other form what I pickedu pformthe boks and it jsut clicked. I lvoe your metaphore of the kite too. It jsut caused alump in m ythroat because it's somethign profoud nI've tried to pinpoint And I've jsut never been able to phrase it.
Oh and he thign of the mknowign each other already came abit as asurprise. buthe nagain it feels to me liek yo uca either view the mas knwing each other already or jsut sorto f clickign in away that feels lie kthey've known each other for years. Heh. I thin kthat covered it all.
19 comments or Leave a comment