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An informal survey for older siblings - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
An informal survey for older siblings
I'm a fatherless only child--a daughter to boot--so naturally, I'm thinking about writing an essay for Saga Journal on the role expectations of an older brother toward a younger brother (and vice versa) and the expections of a son for his father (and vice versa).

Now, there's actually plenty of literature out there on fathers and sons, and on birth order, though the latter seems to focus a lot more on the impact of older siblings on younger ones than the impact of younger ones on the older ones. There's a lot already written on expectations and roles in the parent-child thing, but not a whole lot about expectations from one sibling toward another. So, hey... why not just ask? There is danger of being quoted if you say something clever or insightful.

Questions for older siblings
1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling? If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibiities toward your younger sibling?

I guess that's it. Short, but sweet. :)
53 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
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cheshyre From: cheshyre Date: June 6th, 2005 03:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'll try to answer the rest of your questionaire when I have time, but one interesting observation I made.

My husband and I are both the oldest children of two oldest children. [In other words, my husband and I and all four of our parents are all eldest children with younger siblings.]
We all went to the Disney parks many years ago (along with some other family members) and I kept noticing that when we were in a group, we habitually kept looking back and looking around to make sure the whole group was still present and together. Like sheepdogs... But it was only those of us who were eldest kids.

Just an interesting character trait, I thought.
wychwood From: wychwood Date: June 6th, 2005 04:04 pm (UTC) (Link)
I suspect that one major factor there would be difference in age. I'm the eldest of four, but there are less than five years between me and the youngest; I've had some responsibility over them in various instances, but the age-gap is so small that by the time I was old enough to be really responsible, they were old enough not to need it.

Plus, y'know, they never actually paid me any attention anyway ;)
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: June 6th, 2005 04:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
Heh. Yeah, I have one younger brother, but only by two years. My mother was more concerned with teaching me not to boss him around than with getting me to take responsibility for him.
valerie_valerah From: valerie_valerah Date: June 6th, 2005 04:08 pm (UTC) (Link)

From the oldest daughter of four (a brother and two sisters)

1. Well, I know when we are left alone (a rare occassion when we were younger, but now more often, as I'm 19, my brother is 18, and my sisters are 14 and 13), it is sort of an unspoken expectation of me to make sure everyone stays safe and relatively out of trouble, moreso for my sisters than my brother, as he is only a year younger than me. I remember a few times when my sisters were toddlers, and I was around 7 or 8, and I changed their diapers once or twice. I've always considered watching out for my siblings as my responsibility as the oldest, however I'm hardly ever in charge in the sense that I make rules and they have to listen; that never happens. It was never a big imposition to me, although I was always miffed when I was yelled at when my sisters made a mess.

2. From my brother, who is 18, I sort of look to him as what I percieve most younger siblings look to in an older brother. I'm constantly expecting him to fix whatever computer problems I'm having and to explain things to me when I don't understand. However, being that I am the oldest, I expect him, as well as my sisters, to treat me with something resembling respect, even though I normally don't get that. I expect both of my sisters to feel comfortable is coming to me with questions or concerns that they may not feel comfortable talking with my mom or dad about. We seem to have another one of those unspoken understandings that, if it's not a lifethreatening or really serious secret, I won't tell mom or dad what is bothering them, but will try to help them resolve whatever is bothering them myself. Most of the time, though, we treat each other as equals (as in, we all get the equal amount of insults from each other :P).

3. Most of what I perceive of them expecting from me is a cheuffer, as least from my sisters. My brother expects me to help him match his clothing (silly male) and to teach him to use the washing machine. Also, lately he's been asking me questions about certain college preparation things, even though he usually rubs in the fact that I'm going to the community college and he's going to RPI, but that's neither here nor there. I think whatever they expect of me is pretty much fair game, as I am the oldest and should have more experience than them. Again, I think this applies more to my sisters than my brother.

4. As oldest sibling, it's my responsibility to protect my younger siblings from whomever and whatever they need protecting from. However, it is not my job to coddle them. That's my parents' job. My job is to let them know that life is tough and mean, but not at all horrible. If I'm mean or hard on them, it's to prepare them for what is to come. I do it out of love, and I want them to be better prepared than I was for things like high school (again, mainly for my sisters). I also have to take up the role as "second mother" if for one reason or another our mother isn't availble (highly unlikely). I'm not only there to teach them, though. I also have an obligation to make sure they have more fun than I did when I was their age.

I hope that helps! Good luck with the essay.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 6th, 2005 04:25 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: From the oldest daughter of four (a brother and two sisters)

Thanks, very helpful... number four particularly, with the delineation between perceived sibling roles and perceived parental roles. (I'm going to ask younger sibs what they expect differently between parents and olders next.)
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: June 6th, 2005 04:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
1. Yes, it was a habitual pain in the butt. (But I'm not bitter.)

2. As children, I expected my siblings to pay attention to ME! which they did not. I learned that they would do whatever they wanted, whether or not I told them not to. In other words, I assumed I had authority. In reality, I had none. As adults, I rarely see my brother (he's on his side of the Mason Dixon line and I'm on the other) and I have no influence or expectations (except for this year's family reunion - it's his turn to organize it) on him. We talk infrequently, but we were never close in anything but age. My youngest sister* lives about 40 miles away, we talk about family things only. Neither of us make any big effort to call each other, but our relationship has always been bad.

3. Their expectations of me? No idea.

4. I get more duty toward caring for elderly parents. Because I have a sister who is mentally retarded, our family's care-giving roles are complex. I have always thought that I would have some responsibility toward that sister's ultimate care, but the current thoughts are in flux due to changes in the law and family situations. My situation is not normal, so don't judge others by me.

*If you have 2 younger sisters, what do you call the junior? Is she your youngest sister or your younger younger sister?
justjanuary From: justjanuary Date: June 6th, 2005 07:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
Younger sister and youngest sister.
izhilzha From: izhilzha Date: June 6th, 2005 04:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ooo, cool, I'm an oldest child:

1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?

I was responsible for them often, being the eldest of (eventually) seven children. Also, we were homeschooled, so if Mom was busy and Dad not home, I was the default authority. I was also the default babysitter once I turned 13. So, yes, absolutely a habitual thing.

I never thought of it as an imposition, just as part of my role in the family. I did sometimes resent it, but I have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility/guilt and I think that contributed to my willingness to just step in and be Mom-#2.

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling? If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?

Other than that they would be annoying? ;-) I expected, when we were younger, that they would respect my position as oldest child, and respect the parental injunction that I was boss in their absence.

Now that I'm an adult, I guess I just expect that we'll stay in touch and keep track of each other, help each other out if necessary.

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?

Guidence (not that a younger sib will admit that). Information, answers to questions. I was responsible for converting all my sibs into rabid bookworms. *smug grin* And one of my most memorable moments is when my 7-yr-old sister was standing next to me at our Grandma's funeral, and she asked me very quietly if it was okay to be sad (re: the pastor's talk, about being happy that Grandma was with the Lord). I got to be the one to tell her, yes, it's okay, go ahead and cry.

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibiities toward your younger sibling?

I expect that I will keep them safe, whether that means protecting them (even to the extent of saying, "Those books really suck, don't bother reading them") or making sure they hear about my own mistakes so they won't make the same ones. This particularly applies to making sure my younger brothers understand how their actions will appear to the girls they're interested in. :-) I also hope to help them learn to think for themselves, because then I will be able to quit being responsible for them.
(Deleted comment)
justjanuary From: justjanuary Date: June 6th, 2005 05:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Questions for older siblings
1. I am normally in charge of my younger sister. I mean, whenever we go somewhere or my mom is asleep, even though I'm the middle child. It is a habitual thing, and it seems pretty normal to me, her being almost three years younger than me and not a friendly little person. What always struck/strikes me as odd, and has always felt like a big imposition is being stuck with the responsibility of my older brother (he is immature).

2. I expect my younger sister to do what I say when I say it (Dictator? Me?) and in exchange I rarely order her around. I expect her to be polite to me and not take her bad moods out on me, and I do the same for her.

3. I think she expects me to protect her. When she was younger and had nightmares or got sick or just wanted attention, she went to me usually. In fact, she still does. I think thats fair, because she tries to protect me in turn (except when flying bugs are around or anything is sprayed at her. Then I become the human shield).

4. I expect myself to teach her, and to protect her. I think my responsibilities to my younger sister are to help her be the person she wants to be, soften her harsh edges (whether or not she wants them softened!), and to be one of the people she can confide into and expect without strings to help her. I think its my responsibility to baby her, as I am the only one who will.
akilika From: akilika Date: June 6th, 2005 05:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
. . . is this just for oldest siblings, or for anyone with a sibling younger than them? (I ask 'cause I'm a middle--one sister five and a half years older, and one sister one and a half years younger.) Just curious to see if I apply to this before I answer.
sannalim From: sannalim Date: June 6th, 2005 05:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think it's for anyone who has a younger sibling. I think you could be number nine of ten and still answer Fern's questions.
sannalim From: sannalim Date: June 6th, 2005 05:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm the firstborn of six children. I have three sisters, all of whom were born before I turned five, and two brothers, who were born when I was ten and twelve. Thus, my sisters and I are all now in our twenties, and my brothers are teenagers.

1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?
After I turned eleven, my parents considered me old enough and responsible enough to be left in charge of my siblings on weekend afternoons or evenings while they went out. Since our babysitters when my sisters and I were small children had never been much older than sixth-grade age, this was about what I expected--in other words, very much the normal order of things. I was left in charge maybe once or twice a month, increasing gradually as we got older. My sisters are still fond of embarassing me by telling exaggerated tales of the dictatorial horror I supposedly became when left in charge.

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling? If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?
When we were all children, I expected my sibs to pay attention and to (mostly) do what I told them to.
Now that my sisters and I are all adults--and thankfully past the quarrels of our adolescence to become good friends--we keep in touch regularly--but I must admit that my sisters do most of the driving of that, since I am not a terribly communicative sort (LJ evidence to the contrary). I don't really expect my sisters to come to me for advice, since they are wiser than I am.
Since I am no longer at Home, my expectations for my brothers are more or less the same as those for my sisters (that they will write letters occasionally and talk to me on the phone when I call) but with the added hope that they will think of me fondly when we are all middle-aged.

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?
My brothers expect me to be interested in what they are doing, particularly in their creative endeavors, which is a perfectly fair expectation as I like them to be interested in mine. They also expect me to spend at least some time doing things with them when I am at Home, also a fair expectation. I hope that they also expect me to provide a good example.
My sisters expect me to call them and write to them, which I suspect I do far less often than they would like.

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibiities toward your younger sibling?
My role as eldest is to be the trail-breaker, to show my siblings what is possible and to set benchmarks for them all to meet or surpass (so far my sisters have done the surpassing part brilliantly). I also have a responsibility to live a good life, so that my siblings will have a positive example to follow. As the eldest, I felt that another of my roles was to be a buffer between my parents and my siblings--defending my siblings' actions to my parents and/or my parents' actions to my siblings, as the case required.
angua9 From: angua9 Date: June 6th, 2005 06:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?

I always felt responsible for my two younger siblings (2 and 3.5 years younger). There were many, many times my parents expected me to take responsibility for them, but I felt the need to protect them and teach them at all times. I suppose I took it for granted as normal.

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling?

I'm afraid I expected obedience. :p

If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?

Yes. I don't expect anything of them now, except those family things of being there for me if I needed them and normal relationship pleasantries.

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?

I suspect they expect me to continue to be a bit of a role model and possibly to intercede with the parents for them if needed. That seems fair.

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibilities toward your younger sibling?

I still see myself as having a responsibility to be a role model, set a good example, and give them good advice if needed. Because I am slightly older, I have always gone through major life events (getting married, buying a house, having children, etc.) first, and they do ask my advice.


Interesting questions! I'm not sure I had ever consciously thought about this before.
rosefyre From: rosefyre Date: June 6th, 2005 06:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
Well, I'm the eldest of two girls, and my little sister is less than two years younger than me, so I don't know how much I'll be able to help, but I'll fill it out anyway.

1. Yes - when I got to be about 12 or so, my parents started leaving us home along on evenings, not getting a babysitter. Thus, I was the most adult person in the house. It wasn't a huge deal, but then again, by the time they started doing that, my sister was 10 and able to do pretty much everything by herself.

2. I'm not sure exactly what you mean by expectations. I guess I expect her to be a little less mature than I am, though that's not so much the case anymore.

3. Well, I think she expects me to be able to help her with things that the parents can't necessarily do - getting gifts for parents, helping with homework in certain subjects (after my dad died, I became the math/science authority in the house...not that I really am, but I was two grades above my sister and my mom...er...doesn't do math so much). I think she also expects me to be a bit...conscientious of her feelings, which may just be what happens with me and my sister. After all, I tend to let her pick when relatives get two similar but not identical gifts for us (like, the same shirt, but in pink and blue). I've always done that, though, so I don't how much that applies to other people.

4. I expect to be the organized person, the person who she can come to if she needs help. It's much more reciprocal now - as I'm almost 21 and she just turned 19, there's really not much difference between us, but when we were little there was. I also expect that I will have to be the adult more often than she will, just because I'm older. I'm the one who takes responsibility more often, possibly because I'm not used to it.

I hope that helps!
rosefyre From: rosefyre Date: June 6th, 2005 06:15 pm (UTC) (Link)
Er...I am used to it.
fearlesstemp From: fearlesstemp Date: June 6th, 2005 06:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
Lurker speaking up here, hope you don't mind.

1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?

I am the oldest of two kids. My brother is three and a half years younger than me, and we have a good relationship. When I was eleven, my parents decided I was old enough to babysit, and I looked after him whenever they both had to go out, and also after school until they got home from work. It was pretty habitual; the only thing that occasionally annoyed me was not being by myself. I didn't resent having to look after him (it always felt natural to me) or wish someone else would take up the job. But I was happy when he'd go play somewhere else, mostly because then I would have full control over the TV.

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling? If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?

In adulthood, I expect him to come to me with problems he doesn't feel comfortable telling our parents about and ask me for help when he needs it. I also expect him to be a decent human being in general, and for him to look out for me when I need it. In childhood, I mostly expected him to not cause a lot of trouble because I didn't feel like explaining it to my parents when I got home.

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?

Money, first of all! He's in college, I'm a few years out, so I pick up the tab when we're out and he feels more than comfortable asking me for a few bucks when he needs it. I think he also expects me to give him advice, whether he asks for it or not, on classes, roommate situations, dealing with our parents, looking for a job, and anything else that pops into my head. I also help him with his papers, summer job applications, etc.

As to whether it's a fair expectation - that's hard to say. He expects it because it's what I've given him all of his life. Sometimes I feel like he doesn't appreciate the amount of effort some of the things he asks me for (or I give him unasked) take, but I can understand how he wouldn't see it since he's never been in my position. Also, most of the time, I don't want him to know how much effort it takes because I don't want him to feel guilty for whatever advice/protection/item I'm offering him, because what's most important is that he get the a/p/i, not how I feel about it at the end of the day.

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibiities toward your younger sibling?

I expect myself to look out for him, run interference between him and my parents, operate as a first call if he's in trouble if he needs it. We both have a great relationship with our parents, but still, there are some times where you want advice or conversation with someone you can trust, who knows you better than anyone, but who isn't mom or dad - and that's where I come in. He does the same for me, on occasion, but I do feel like I should be more a listener than a talker (whether this is how it actually is - you'll have to ask my brother).

It's my responsibility to make sure that he's always okay. My parents drilled that into both of us, and I think he'd say that it's his responsibility to make sure I'm always okay. It's a reciprocal relationship in a lot of ways, probably because we're so close in age, but when it comes right down to it, I feel that in order for me to be doing a good job as an older sibling, I should be bearing more of the burden, looking out to make sure he's doing all right, passing down advice whenever I can, and offering myself as an ally when he needs it.
purple_ladybug1 From: purple_ladybug1 Date: June 6th, 2005 06:51 pm (UTC) (Link)
Background info- I'm the eldest of three, but only by 18 minutes with my twin brother. With that 18 minutes, however, plus being the only girl, I share the privileges of being the eldest while singlehandedly getting most of the responsibilty. Oh, and we're almost 18 and J is 13.

1. I've had to watch after J since I was about nine or ten if my mom had to run errands. Technically, H and I were supposed to watch him, but H usually biked over to his friend's house, leaving me stuck at home with all the responsibility. Mom never left us long, maybe an hour or two, and didn't do it often. Now that we're older, if my parents go out, we all just look after ourselves. I found this all being both normal and an imposition. It was normal that H and I should watch our little brother; it was imposing for me to always be the one to do the actual watching.

2. I expect more of H and J then my parents do. I expect H to not cuss in front of adults, but he does anyway. I expect J to not sass adults and to recognize that H and I have more education than he does and thus more knowledge, but he doesn't on either account. My parents expect less of them, either because they're boys, because they're ADHD, or because they're younger.

3. It seems like H expects me to take care of him, in a way. Having the same classes and being in the same clubs, I always reminded him of what he had to do. Otherwise he would've been kicked out of all our clubs and had even worse grades. J expects me to lead by example and thus points out every little thing I do wrong. They're not fair expectations. H and I are twins. He's going to have to learn to watch out for himself, esp. since we'll be at different colleges in the fall. J needs to hold me to the same expectations as H because it isn't fair to treat me differently.

4. I break up fights between my brothers, act as the rational voice between their "dicussions," help J articulate what he means when he can't find the right words, and make suggestions to my parents for the overall good of the family (it was my idea to get a gas charge card and to get checking accounts for H and me).
purple_ladybug1 From: purple_ladybug1 Date: June 6th, 2005 06:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
P.S. We live in a small, really safe town in a nice, upper-middle class, really safe neighborhood. People tend to think my parents were irresponsible leaving me to watch J at nine, but here, it's actually not uncommon.
liwy From: liwy Date: June 6th, 2005 06:51 pm (UTC) (Link)

*corrects spelling*

1-I sat for my parents on occasion, though usually my parents hired some high school girl undtil I was about ten or so. At times I helped Mom take care of my brother when he was a baby/toddler.
2-Nothing-in general we're not that connected. We have different interests, activities, and such. We probably wouldn't really interact at all if we weren't living under the same roof.
3-Nothing, although my sister occasionally pesters me about my eating habits.
4-Nothing, really, at this point-as I said, we tend to do our own thing for the most part.
karit From: karit Date: June 6th, 2005 06:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
1. Have you ever been in a situation where you were responsible for your younger sibling(s)? If yes, was it a habitual thing, or just an isolated incident or two? Did this strike you as the normal order of things, or a big imposition, or some other angle?

I've got two younger brothers, and yep, I babysat them habitually. More so with the younger of the two than the older, because I was usually babysitting because the older had a soccer game or tournament or something, but occasionally the younger one was the one with the soccer commitments. I can't say that I always enjoyed doing it, because sometimes they drove me absolutely insane, and sometimes, shockingly, I even had things I'd rather be doing. Still, I didn't exactly consider it an imposition, because that's just how it was. Yes, I thought it was just the natural order of things. It's what older siblings do. Also, I knew my parents didn't want to shell out money for an actual sitter, so yeah.

2. What do you expect of your younger sibling? If you are an adult, is this expectation different in adulthood than it was in childhood?

My older younger brother (ha--I love saying that) is only two and a half years younger than me, so in some things, I look to him for guidance. Mostly just "guy" stuff like helping me with my car or telling me how to fix my computer (not necessarily a guy thing, I know, but it's definitely a him thing rather than a me thing). I expect him to take the time to help me with those things when I need it. Also, since he's a guy, I ask him what he thinks about my hair or clothes if I think they look bad, and I trust him to tell me if I look stupid. With my youngest brother, I actually have a closer relationship, so my expectations are a bit more personal. I need him to spend time with me, have fun with me, and basically just be friends with me as well as a younger brother. My expectations of both of my brothers are for them to want to stay close to me even after we grow up and move on to our own, separate lives.
karit From: karit Date: June 6th, 2005 06:54 pm (UTC) (Link)

continued~!

Ack, it turned out so long that I have to do it in two comments. @_@;; Wow, I think I went a bit overboard... Hope it's at least helpful, so I'm not just wasting space... XD;;; I can't help it! I feel very, very strongly about my relationships with my brothers.

3. What do you perceive him/her expecting from you? Do think it's a fair expectation?

They expect me to be there for them if they need it, whether physically or emotionally. They're both too macho to really admit they need emotional support, or to accept it if it's given, so it's more that they expect me to treat them a certain way when they need it. If that makes any sense... for example, if their girlfriend breaks up with them and I know they're upset, they expect me to not say a single word about the breakup and act like everything's normal, because that's what they need from me. Basically, not give them anything they can't handle, or act like there's something they can't handle on their own. This next part is probably unique to our family, but it's kind of important to our dynamic, so... when our father gets angry, they expect me to be a buffer if I can, to distract him or calm him down if it's possible. Or if he's just mad in general, they expect us to work as a group to either calm him down or not exacerbate the situation.

I've never felt like their expectations weren't fair, because it's just what families should do for each other, and most of it is something that I would expect of myself anyway.

4. What do you expect of yourself in your role of older sibling? What do you perceive as your responsibiities toward your younger sibling?

I'm definitely one of those protective older siblings. No one on earth is allowed to badmouth, put down or otherwise injure either one of my brothers, or so help me God, hell hath no fury... like an older sister. Perhaps that's a bit of an exaggeration, but not by much. I've fought with both my brothers on innumerable occasions, some very volatile, but I would die before letting someone seriously hurt them. When I have nightmares, that's what they're about.

It must be obvious that I'm not an older sibling that ever bullied their younger siblings. On the other end of the scale, I did tend to mother at least one of them. The older of the two would never let me do anything that would be obviously classified as mothering, and I wouldn't offer to in the first place. We're too close in age for that. That isn't to say that I don't take care of him, because it would be a lie for me to say that I don't do that to the best of my ability. We were just more equal than anything. Partners in crime, really. With the younger of the two, I did more mothering than being a partner in crime. I carried him when Mom got tired, I kept an eye on him, I was able to make rules for him. When we went on trips and on vacation, I was the one who kept track of him. Both of them know that I'm there for them whenever they need me. And when I know they're doing something that would get them in trouble, I consider it my job to stop them, as well as my job to tell our parents.
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