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:headdesk: - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
:headdesk:
titti reported this article about the new SW TV series, with McCallum apparently muttering a few non-descript things and the reporter taking it as a big scoop.

Suffice it to say, with anything Lucas-involved, if he hasn't even started planning it, then we're talking about ideas being tossed around at the ranch. McCallum mentions something about how certain people end up together, and how Luke grows up on the farm.

So in the comments, we get (paraphrased because I can't be bothered to check the exact wording):

If it's Han and Chewie, this is the story, with stuff from the Expanded Universe listed like it's gospel.

Why would we want to hear about some kid on a farm before he goes off to have adventures?

What's with Tatooine? Why do we want to see Tatooine again?

Sigh.

You know, SW fan whining is worse than anything Luke or Anakin ever did.

Honestly.

1. There's no reason to believe a TV show will follow the EU. The question of whether or not Wookiees went into slavery after the battle on Kashyyk in RotS is open--it could happen, it's not ruled out. It's also not made canon. And frankly, if Han and Chewie are the people being talked about, then it sounds like they're thinking about doing a new take on it. The fact that the thing has been written about in the EU isn't going to have much of an impact.

2. Who wants to hear about some kid on a farm? Well, ask the huge numbers of people who tune in for Smallville every week. Luke's not just "any kid." Just because he hasn't started his life's work yet doesn't mean nothing interesting could happen to him.

3. If there's a "home base" for Star Wars, it's Tatooine. It's the Ithaca of Lucas's Odyssey. Of course you're going to keep coming back to it.

Now, personally, I'd rather see a kind of anthological format, with original characters--possibly a surviving Jedi--who goes from world to world. But that doesn't mean that young Luke or young Leia stories couldn't work. Heck, I built my now-obsoleted ficverse on young Leia stories and have done a couple of young Luke ones. Young Luke is harder because he's still pretty innocent in ANH, but he's a possibility.

Also, if both of the comments McCallum randomly makes are in the works, we may be seeing a kind of anthology, with some episodes on Tatooine, some looking at Han and Chewie, maybe some in the Empire, maybe some with escaped Jedi meeting their fates. McCallum's commments were as vague as it's possible to be while still actually moving one's mouth. But of course, responding fans immediately come up with exactly what it's going to be, and have staked out which thing they plan to complain about most loudly.

:bitchslap:

Tags:
I feel a bit...: irritated irritated
Soundtrack: Buffy, "Once More With Feeling"

43 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
From: psalm_27 Date: June 18th, 2005 05:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
:bitchslap:

Thank you! I read the same article earlier and was just amazed at how quickly the whining started.

I would think that a TV series could be wide open, telling everyone's story, characters we're familiar with and new, original characters. Using anything from the EU will make a few happy, but most people haven't heard of them and don't care. I would love to see an anthology like you mentioned, linking all the stories together in quiet ways. There's so much potential!

I built my now-obsoleted ficverse on young Leia stories

Obsolete? Never!
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 05:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
Obsolete? Never!

They're predicated from the very first lines on Padmé being on Alderaan with Leia for a few years--the very title "Father's Heart" is from something Leia has fuzzy memories of her mother saying to her. And my ficverse started with FH and expanded from there. If Padmé does not go to Alderaan, every word I wrote is obsoleted. It was central to the entire idea. C'est la vie in fanfic. B'bye.

Anyway, yes--it shouldn't astound me that SW fans are wanking before the first production decision has been made, and yet it still managed to take me by surprise.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 05:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
(She says after wanking about being obsoleted.)

:rolleyes:
honorh From: honorh Date: June 18th, 2005 05:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
So what's your difficulty? You already speculated as to how Padme could've gone to Alderaan--her death was faked--so all you'd have to do is ignore any inconsistencies with Vader. Simple as snot.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 06:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yeah... but I want it fixed in canon so I don't have to explain it all, see? :p

My problem is that I really do value trying to honor what the creator intended, and I never would have written stories in which Padmé was with Leia on Alderaan if I hadn't very genuinely believed that Padmé would end the Republic trilogy on Alderaan with Leia--that seemed to be essence of the scene on Endor. It was the only thing we had to hang speculation on, and I hung everything on it. Having to re-speculate the peg and come up with an excuse that I'd laugh at an EU writer for (all of their married Jedi were exceptions to the rule, the timelines are based on different kinds of reckoning, etc) makes me feel a little petty. Though I guess if they can do it, I can. I just probably won't.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 06:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
(PS. That's a lie. Who am I kidding? I was trying for McCallum levels of vagueness, but she's already back in the FH universe. I popped her into "Process of Elimination" without even a moral blink of the eye.)
darth_pipes From: darth_pipes Date: June 18th, 2005 06:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
You did? Was she the nurse?
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 08:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
The nurse who accidentally let the baby slip away? Why would she allow such a thing? ;)

:whistles innocently:
From: psalm_27 Date: June 18th, 2005 07:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
And this is why I say that the FH series will never be obsolete. The characters and the situations that you created fit very nicely into canon, despite the lack of Padme on Alderaan. The things that Padme said at the beginning are important (the trunk, you have your father's heart, etc), but Leia is still at the heart of the story and you nailed my perception of the young Leia on the nose and her perceived relationship with Darth Vader.

*now runs away after arguing with author about her own work*
From: psalm_27 Date: June 18th, 2005 07:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Total icon love.
From: psalm_27 Date: June 18th, 2005 07:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
C'est la vie in fanfic

The question is can multi-fandom folks (HP and SW) handle new canon within months of each other in our fandoms? The wank factor will be off the charts.
darth_pipes From: darth_pipes Date: June 18th, 2005 05:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Heheh. Looks like some of the fans have something new to complain about with the TV show. Then they start going on and on about the EU like its gospel. The show will be whatever GL wants it to be. Now, I personally like the backstory that Han was an Imperial officier that freed Chewie from slavery. I think it gives fascinating insight into Han's character. But if GL doesn't want to use that, then so be it. Han was originally supposed to be living with Chewie in ROTS but they cut the character out.

LOL on Smallville. You're exactly right. It reminds me of when they would always ask Trek producer (and hack) Rick Berman if the next ST movie or TV series would be Starfleet Academy. He always dismissed it and once responded "putting children in danger is not what Star Trek is about." To which someone responded "Yeah, no one ever cared to read about that boy wizard and his friends at Hogwarts."

The early days of Luke and Leia would be pretty interesting. Tatooine is a fascinating world and like you said, it is the center of Tatooine. I wouldn't mind seeing more of it. Hell, the thing I'd love to see the most on this series (even though it would never happen) is for them to get McGreggor to return for an hour of Obi-Wan on Tatooine.

The one thing I'll agree about is that things couldn't have been too exciting for Luke on Tatooine given his reactions to it. But I'm sure the idea could work.

I can't wait till things get rolling on this. It should be interesting. The Clone Wars cartoon series should get rolling in the very near future.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 18th, 2005 07:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
Heh. I read that and the comments. Dudes, I'd like to read about young!Luke and young!Leia. Tis good stuff, imho. It doesn't all have to be nifty jeezo lightsaber duels and space battles. SW fans are quite whiny about things, not to say that I'm not, but even I can point out my favorite bits of AotC. The last 45 minutes.

Why is young!Luke and young!Leia so boring? They're interesting characters, I'd love to watch them grow up. I'd love to see Obi-Wan grow and mature and mayhaps have a convo or two with ghosty!Qui-Gon. Little stuff like that makes a story stronger, imho.

And GL clearly does not care what the EU writers do. It's his universe, after all.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 09:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
Why is young!Luke and young!Leia so boring?

'Cause, you know, they're kids and kids are icky. All SF characters must spontaneously generate at the age of eighteen, and may not live longer than thirty-five.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 19th, 2005 07:06 am (UTC) (Link)
Bah. I look forward to watching Obi-Wan grow old and Luke and Leia romp around because I love them, I don't care how old or young they are. And dude? I'd like to see Luke shooting womprats in the canyon, or Old Ben saving Luke from a krayt dragon or somesuch. It would make me happy. SW fans whine a lot. I blame AotC!Anakin. ;D
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 19th, 2005 07:13 am (UTC) (Link)
Nah, they've been whiny since Luke needed to go into Toshi Station to pick up some power converters. ;)
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 19th, 2005 07:21 am (UTC) (Link)
*giggles* All right, I give in. At least Luke never made me want to reach through the movie screen and hurt him, though. XD

Anakin: I am not whiny. I am emo.
Jax: And that's better?
Anakin: *tries to force choke me but fails on the virtue of me being real so therefore I win* Curses! Foiled again!
Jax: Haha.

Forgive me for being silly. I haven't slept in a couple days.
thewhiteowl From: thewhiteowl Date: June 18th, 2005 08:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
Now they're going to obsolete my fics! Again! Well, if they don't put Leia in it, it should be all right. Luke's childhood has plenty of blank, empty space for things to happen in. I don't much care about Han's childhood, although didn't the Imperial officer thing come from Lucas himself? So he might stick with it.
On the other hand, I do manage to ignore 'Young Indy' as canon for that, so... *shrug*
coralia13 From: coralia13 Date: June 19th, 2005 03:04 am (UTC) (Link)
I love your icon!
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 19th, 2005 03:08 am (UTC) (Link)
Heh, yeah. I want that on a T-shirt. (I find that to be the case with a lot of fandom icons I see.)
coralia13 From: coralia13 Date: June 19th, 2005 04:21 am (UTC) (Link)
There are so many good ones out there. Often, I go to comment pages on LJs just to scan the icons.
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 18th, 2005 08:34 pm (UTC) (Link)

Totally Random

Totally random, but Buffy: Once more with feeling is a completely awesome soundtrack.
~W&R
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 18th, 2005 09:20 pm (UTC) (Link)

Re: Totally Random

Totally true. :) Love that soundtrack, escpecially "Let it Burn."
may_child From: may_child Date: June 19th, 2005 05:41 am (UTC) (Link)
1. There's no reason to believe a TV show will follow the EU. The question of whether or not Wookiees went into slavery after the battle on Kashyyk in RotS is open--it could happen, it's not ruled out. It's also not made canon. And frankly, if Han and Chewie are the people being talked about, then it sounds like they're thinking about doing a new take on it. The fact that the thing has been written about in the EU isn't going to have much of an impact.

I'd very much like it if the TV series stomped all over the EU, especially with regards to Han's past. The idea of the so-called Han Solo Trilogy (not to be confused with the Han Solo Adventures, which came out in the 70s and were actually not bad) being nullified puts a big smile on my face.

As it happens, Lucas considered putting young Han in ROTS -- he'd have appeared in the Kashyyyk sequence. That contradicted what the EU established for his past, which shows me that Lucas paid no attention to the EU.

So hopefully the TV series will do likewise. The last thing on Earth I want is for it to be a series about, say, Mara Jade, building her up to the level of Vader -- but at the same time insisting she was NEVER DARK.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 19th, 2005 07:09 am (UTC) (Link)
Mara Jade, for some reason, does not bother me. It's Callista, Lumiya, Siri Tachi, Ferus Olin, and Kyp Durron I don't want to ever hear about. Ever. *pretends they don't exist*

The old 70's Han Solo Adventures were kinda cool, but I don't care if Lucas disregards them. They are, after all, only fanfic to me. ;D

*bounces* I don't care what the whiners say. I want me some young!Luke, young!Leia, old!Bail, and old!Obi-Wan. Yes.
may_child From: may_child Date: June 19th, 2005 07:42 pm (UTC) (Link)
I used to like Mara. It wasn't until the NJO that she became truly intolerable to me.

Anyway...I too would love to see Young!Luke and Young!Leia. And more Bail is always a good thing -- I'd love it if they got Jimmy Smits to return. I don't see why not; TV is his primary medium, after all.

I think we can safely say Mara Jade will NOT be in the television series.

Good.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 20th, 2005 06:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Zahn is one of the few decent EU writers, and when he wrote Mara, I liked her. When Anderson and the rest got hold of her, it was crpatastic. NJO, in general, sucks, imho. And I'm still infuriated that Leia never became a Jedi, because honestly, that's what it seemed would happen in RotJ to me.

Oh, yes, I was just thinking that: Jimmy Smits might reprise Bail in the TV show. I would be thrilled.

I wouldn't mind seeing Mara, if done in a reasonable manner, personally. ;D But if she's not there, I couldn't care less. I'm not into the SW series for her.

Your icon reminds me I need a young!Anakin icon that says "Twee!Vader" on it. ;D
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 20th, 2005 11:27 am (UTC) (Link)
I hated the Zahn trilogy. Just really forced myself through it. I ended up laughing out loud at it on the city bus when Luke was fighting Luuke. The only EU I've ever liked was the early Jedi Apprentice series, and Rogue Planet.

And I'm still infuriated that Leia never became a Jedi, because honestly, that's what it seemed would happen in RotJ to me.

I wouldn't have minded her not becoming a Jedi--I think her temperament isn't very suited to it, and besides, she's got the whole married lady thing going on and is needed in politics--but I'd have liked to see the issue actually, you know, addressed, not just, "Well, time kind of slipped away and she'd never gotten around to it" or whatever she did. Maybe she could begin the training and take it very seriously, but start running into the kind of problems that would be caused.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 20th, 2005 11:36 am (UTC) (Link)
Well, I read the Zahn stuff when I was very young. I don't remember Luuke, so I guess I've filtered out my bad memories. I just rmember liking Thrawn as a villain and Mara as a sorta villainess, potential romantic interest for Luke. I've honestly not read it in many, many years, and if I reread it, I'm not sure how I would feel about it. my tastes have changed. I read bits of a Mace novel my father got the library, and it was dark and fascinating, but I don't rmeember the title and must now hunt it down.

I can see it going both ways, seriously. I can see her becoming a Jedi. I can see her not finishing because she goes with politics. I can see the politics thing not working out after a while and she goes to the Jedi. I just can't see it being ignored like they did in Zahn's stuff and further on. Luke talked about how she would learn in time. I'm fond of the idea of Jedi!Leia and Leia helping Luke rebuild the Jedi, but that's me. I just hated how they ignored it.
darth_pipes From: darth_pipes Date: June 19th, 2005 10:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
What's wrong with Siri? While I don't buy Obi-Wan and her could have ever been serious about a relationship, I think she was the best character to come out of the EU. She complimented Obi-Wan and didn't try to replace him. Ferus on the other hand...

The early years of Luke and Leia would be pretty cool. Leia probably has her share of political intrigue.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 19th, 2005 10:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree. I love Siri, and even had fun with her relationship with Obi-Wan in Family Portrait. Though I'd guess she was misused in a fic or two. She strikes me as placed to be misused.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 20th, 2005 06:21 am (UTC) (Link)
That's my whole problem with her -- the misuse. Really, I've been scarred for life. I liked Family Portraits and even recced it on jedi_news, but honestly Fern? I don't trust the rest of these people to pull her off in a manner that doesn't make me want to ram a lightsaber through their face. Consider yourself special in that I exempt you from this.
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 20th, 2005 06:15 am (UTC) (Link)
Honestly? My prejudice for Siri comes from fandom. I went to a couple Siri Tachi sites and I almost vomitted from the canon rape and how OOC they were writing Anakin and Obi-Wan around her. I tried a few and they all stunk. So honestly? I never want to see another fic with her in it. fernwithy's was good, but I don't think I'll ever recover from the trauma of those first few fics and I don't trust many people to write her in a manner that doesn't make me want to spork my eyeballs out. It's not even the Obi-Wan relationship, he's so non-sexual in canon that it's hard to picture him with anyone or being interested in anyone, but can be done and I accept it could have been Siri even though I think he's gay. I don't find Siri terribly interesting, imho, in what I've read of the sources, but what the fandom has done to her... *speechless in horror*

Let's not discuss Ferus. I almost used Siri and Ferus in a story I'm writing and then when I saw what was being done with them in EU, I decided that never mind, I'd rather take my chances with OCs. @_@

Early Luke and Leia would be love. Bits on Obi-Wan, Luke's adventures, Leia's political intrigues and meeting Vader *shivers in delight*, Jedi hunting, etc. Much fun to be had.

As for lesser known Jedi, I like Zett Jukassa (the padawan in the Bail scene during the Great Jedi Purge), Aayla Secura, Adi Gallia, Depa Billaba, Stass Allie, Shaak Ti, and a few others, but they all appear in the movies, so I'm not sure if they can be classified as "EU".
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 20th, 2005 04:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, but Ferus is fun to discuss. Especially if the discussion involves a great deal of pain inflicted upon him.
darth_pipes From: darth_pipes Date: June 21st, 2005 05:00 am (UTC) (Link)
This is what Obi-Wan can say to Ferus...

"You were a Gary Stu! You were meant to be a villain to Anakin, not a replacement. You were suppose to die horribly, not be a martyer. You were an insect on my boot, Ferus. I hated you and I still do."
imadra_blue From: imadra_blue Date: June 21st, 2005 06:26 am (UTC) (Link)
*dies* Anger leads to hate. And hate leads to the dark side. ;D
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 20th, 2005 03:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
The idea of the so-called Han Solo Trilogy (not to be confused with the Han Solo Adventures, which came out in the 70s and were actually not bad) being nullified puts a big smile on my face.

Why? The Han Solo Trilogy was the only decent piece of Expanded Universe fiction put out by Bantam aside from the Thrawn and X-Wing material.

As it happens, Lucas considered putting young Han in ROTS -- he'd have appeared in the Kashyyyk sequence. That contradicted what the EU established for his past, which shows me that Lucas paid no attention to the EU.

The fact that he borrowed Aalya Secura from the comics and had plans for Quinlan Vos to appear in ROTS also shows that he does pay attention to the EU though he also contradicts it whenever he wants, but then he also contradicts himself and his own movies.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 20th, 2005 03:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
It's that "contradicting whenever he wants" that makes it totally irrelevant to speculative discussions.
may_child From: may_child Date: June 20th, 2005 04:27 pm (UTC) (Link)

Why? The Han Solo Trilogy was the only decent piece of Expanded Universe fiction put out by Bantam aside from the Thrawn and X-Wing material.


I disagree. I think it was nothing more than a Mary Sue crapfest. And if you're going to address my comments, please at least have the decency to use a name.

The fact that he borrowed Aalya Secura from the comics and had plans for Quinlan Vos to appear in ROTS also shows that he does pay attention to the EU

He saw Aayla Secura on the cover of a comic book and thought she looked cool. As for Quinlan Vos, he pays much more attention to the prequel-era EU than the post-ROTJ crap.

though he also contradicts it whenever he wants, but then he also contradicts himself and his own movies.

So what? Does that somehow make the EU more valid? Who is this, anyway?
From: (Anonymous) Date: June 20th, 2005 08:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
As for Quinlan Vos, he pays much more attention to the prequel-era EU than the post-ROTJ crap.

I see otherwise considering that he was the one that the Del Rey Editorial Staff went to when they were trying to pitch the villains for the NJO and it was he who shot down their idea for the protagonist for the series which necessitated the changes in the middle of the series. The attention to the clone wars era material is most likely because there hasn't been very much post-ROTJ material since the end of the NJO.

So what? Does that somehow make the EU more valid?

I'm just pointing out that it's probably not that he doesn't pay attention to the EU, but that he does whatever he see fits, which then leads to the contradictions.
may_child From: may_child Date: June 20th, 2005 08:39 pm (UTC) (Link)
Who is this?

I see otherwise considering that he was the one that the Del Rey Editorial Staff went to when they were trying to pitch the villains for the NJO and it was he who shot down their idea for the protagonist for the series which necessitated the changes in the middle of the series.

So what? He has described the EU as a parallel universe which exists outside his own.

The attention to the clone wars era material is most likely because there hasn't been very much post-ROTJ material since the end of the NJO.

It's most likely that he pays more attention to the PT-era stuff because he finds it more in tune with his movies.

I'm just pointing out that it's probably not that he doesn't pay attention to the EU, but that he does whatever he see fits, which then leads to the contradictions.

He doesn't pay attention to the EU. Otherwise he'd have tailored the PT to fit in with what it established, which, thankfully, he didn't do. Instead, he stomped all over it, and I hope the TV series does likewise. If he takes the occasional character from the EU, that is his right; the EU is based on his story.
darth_pipes From: darth_pipes Date: June 19th, 2005 05:56 am (UTC) (Link)
I think we can safely say Mara Jade will NOT be in the television series.
lazypadawan From: lazypadawan Date: June 19th, 2005 07:25 am (UTC) (Link)
Young Skywalkers would rule! I was thinking about that today while watching ROTS :).
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