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Horcruxes - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Horcruxes
Probably everyone has to do this post, right? :p


Okay, so, seven locations for Voldie's soul.

1. Current body. (Where this resided for the years after killing the Potters is a good question.)
2. Nagini (probable)
3. The ring (destroyed)
4. The diary
(Probable)
5. Slytherin's locket, now elsewhere
6. Hufflepuff's goblet
7. Probably something of Ravenclaw's

I've heard the theory that Harry himself is the last Horcrux, which has some appeal, but reading back through the chapter, Dumbledore takes the trouble to remind us that Voldemort's soul was unable to survive in Harry without enduring "mortal agony." The same would be true of Ginny, plus it was established that the destruction of the diary destroyed that Horcrux. So while I see the logic of that and think that a fantastic conflict could be set up, I don't think it works with the logic of the thing.

What strikes me about this list is that the of the ones that aren't destroyed, three are probably connected to Hogwarts, and the other two are mobile. I think that they're all at the school, one way or the other, and R.A.B. will lead Harry back there.

I may add more later, but I have to get ready for work now.

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Comments
inwonderland_ From: inwonderland_ Date: July 18th, 2005 12:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
*memories* I keep losing track of which items are Horcruxes. *is forgetful* I didn't think Harry was one either, it just sems to... I don't know, obvious, maybe? Hmm.
meredith_eats From: meredith_eats Date: July 18th, 2005 12:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've read that theory too and I don't understand why Voldemort would *want* to use Harry as a horcrux. Dumbledore said that using a living thing is quite dangerous, even if it is your favorite pet. If that's the case, would you really want to put a fragment of your soul in your worst enemy whom you've repeatedly attempted to kill? Too risky IMHO. Anyway, what would have happened to the soul fragment if Harry were killed?
fiatincantatum From: fiatincantatum Date: July 18th, 2005 12:38 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, I was convinced that Harry was one accidentally... that Voldemort was prepared to make one, but the rebounding curse caused that portion of soul to go into Harry instead of wherever he intended it to go. Dumbledore DID say that Voldemort transfered some of his powers that night, including Parseltongue, and the diary fragment was able to cause Ginny to speak Parseltongue, so it seemed like a good bet at the time.

However, Fernwithy makes an excellent point about Voldemort not being able to share Harry's body, so I think I may have been wrong.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 05:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
There is a remaining worrisome point, though -- if Voldemort can't feel it when a horcrux is destroyed, would he necessarily feel it if a bit of his soul was trapped elsewhere and in excruciating pain? (Especially if he mistook any initial sensation as part of getting ripped out of his body -- which I believe he said was painful -- and then got used to it.)
midnitemaraud_r From: midnitemaraud_r Date: July 18th, 2005 10:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think that when he went to the Potters house that night, he intended to use Harry's murder as a catalyst for creating a Horcrux. The notion that he would intentionally make Harry a horcrux is preposterous - he was going there to murder Harry based on the information he received about the prophecy. The fact that it would be, in his mind, a significant murder - killing the person whom it was prophesied that would have the power to vanquish him - was too attractive to him.

I believe he had the horcrux object with him. Now, we don't know how horcruxes are made - is it a spell, or perhaps, (considering Slughorn is a potions expert and had knowledge of them) a potion one must ingest beforehand? I have no idea, but it's an interesting idea. Anyway, he kills James and Lily - minor murders in his mind compared to Harry, but whatever spell Lily used to invoke protection causes the Avada Kedavra to backfire, and interferes with the horcrux spell.

Harry ends up with an unusual lightning shaped scar from a curse that has never before left a mark on its victims. Harry can speak Parseltongue; Harry can feel when Voldemort is near; Harry can sense Voldemort's emotions; Harry can 'possess' Nagini (and I use the term possess lightly - I just can't think of a better term right now); Voldemort can send Harry false images... They absolutely have a connection. Why?

In CoS, at the end:

"You can speak Parsletongue... because Lord Voldemort... can speak Parseltongue. Unless I'm much mistaken, he transferred some of his own powers to you th enight he gave you that scar. Not something he intended to do I'm sure..."
"Voldemort put a bit of himself in *me*?" Harry said, thunderstruck.
"It certainly seems so."

I believe Voldemort is not able to share Harry's body because of the "power the dark lord knows not" - Love. Harry's love - and Lily's love - act like a shield for him. At first it was also a physical shield - Voldemort couldn't touch him. But by using Harry's blood to resurrect himself, he overcame that particular protection. Not all of the protections.

I think there is a distinct difference between a non-living and a living horcrux because a living being has a consciousness. An inanimate object - like the locket or the ring or the diary - has no means of connecting to the other soul fragments. Voldemort, however, is able to possess Nagini, as is Harry.

I also think that Voldemort had the idea of using Hogwarts itself as a horcrux. It's certainly a very powerful magical object, infused with the magic of the four founders, and, it's very possibly sentient. I think that is one of the main reasons why he was so eager to obtain a teaching position there. Only a theory, but a cool one to think about :)

Anyway, I wrote a short essay about the prophecy and Harry as an accidental horcrux on my lj, though I pretty much said it all here as well. :)
dizzy_chisel From: dizzy_chisel Date: July 18th, 2005 12:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
You've convinced me that Harry is not a Horcrux.

One item I find likely is the Sorting Hat: a) once belonged to Gryffindor; b) is already sentient and has "bits" of at least three founders inside -- Slytherin probably had left already when it was made; so young Riddle might have felt it necessary to add a bit of his own soul, for "balance"; which might in turn mean that since Riddle's time, the Hat might have selected precisely for the most toxic Dark-leanings and pureblood ideology, instead of just shrewdness and ambition; c) JKR said somewhere that there's more to the Sorting Hat than meets the eye.
cheshyre From: cheshyre Date: July 18th, 2005 12:36 pm (UTC) (Link)
How would V get at the Sorting Hat to cast the spell?

Could that have been the ulterior motive in his visit to Dumbledore to teach Dark Arts? To get alone with the Hat?
dizzy_chisel From: dizzy_chisel Date: July 18th, 2005 12:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Either he did manage to get at the Hat, and the object is indeed a Horcrux, or he tried and failed to.

In the latter case, I agree that it might have been one of his prime targets when applying for the DADA job. Still, Hogwarts as a school with a 1000-year history is bound to contain more powerful artefacts.

In the former case, maybe he managed even during his time as a student. A NEWT Charms research project, say, might have given him access. All the other teachers trusted him.

The potential Horcruxes would have to be matched up with specific acts of killing. I'm not even sure how this worked out with the diary, if indeed it was Moaning Myrtle's death that served to make it: He'd have produced a blank, ensouled diary then, because he only actually wrote it afterwards.

We know he killed at least three times when still very young: his uncle (ring), MM (diary?), his father. Could he make a Horcrux from an object that is physically not present at the place of killing?
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: July 18th, 2005 01:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think it was the Sorting Hat, which has its own opinions about the unity of the Wizarding world - I think if it had been made into a horcrux (and the nature of an object that has been made into a horcrux needs to be examined) it would be singing a very different tune.

I think that Tom Riddle's award for special services to the school is the curse object for the DADA position.

Edited to fix a logic error. My bad.
From: greenwoodside Date: July 18th, 2005 01:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
You don't think he could have made that into a Horcrux do you?
darreldoomvomit From: darreldoomvomit Date: July 18th, 2005 03:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
But, Dumbledore said that the only remaining relic of Gryffindor's was the sword, so if he was going for every founder, then the hat wouldn't really fit, and i think that voldemort would go for ravenclaw before gryffindor.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 03:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, that claim of Dumbledore's is precisely why I started worrying about the hat, which did say -- in the first book, I believe -- that it had been worn by Godric.

Of course, up until the climax of CoS, the sword was IN the Sorting Hat (unless the Hat transported it from somewhere). Voldemort managed to jinx the DADA post, but he doesn't appear to have had any good opportunity to get at the hat. Possibly the hat and sword will be instrumental in his defeat (again); I could see Gryffindor ending up as the only horcrux-free house. Not how I'd do it, but it isn't my book.
dizzy_chisel From: dizzy_chisel Date: July 18th, 2005 05:16 pm (UTC) (Link)
Dumbledore said that the only remaining relic of Gryffindor's was the sword

I take that to mean that the sword is the only remaining magical artefact that belonged to Gryffindor. The hat was just a piece of his clothing before the remaining three founders turned it into a magical object.

Checking back on what we learn about V's murders, there was MM first (his 5th year), then his father and grandparents (summer after his sixth), then, according to Dumbledore, no murder until he was "a young man" (25-ish?) and killed the old collector for the locket and the cup.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 05:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm really rather puzzled as to why some people seem to take it for granted that Salazar had no direct input into the Sorting Hat. It's not as if they couldn't have all four thought about their own mortality at some point before he left, is it?
dizzy_chisel From: dizzy_chisel Date: July 18th, 2005 05:44 pm (UTC) (Link)
This is of course perfectly possible.

OTOH, the school was probably a rather informal and small place, developing into a hub of magical activity unrelated to education (Hogsmede). Salazar's departure must have left the other three founders a bit rattled and the way I rationalise it, might have spurred them to provide for the future. And they did keep his house, in any case.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 06:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ah, yes, I can see that. I'd just seen a couple of references that seemed to assume the Hat must have been created after Salazar's departure, and hopped on you to look for an explanation.
danel4d From: danel4d Date: July 18th, 2005 01:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yes, I've seen lots of people suggesting that Ginny or Harry are Horcruxes... while I can see some lovely tragic fic potential there, I just don't think it works... Diary!Tom's explanation of pouring his soul into Ginny implied that this was when he was controlling her, and in any event she was moments from death anyway, since he planned to drain her to incarnate himself. And the idea of Harry having to die at the conclusion of the series... no. Just no.

By the way, is it okay if I add you to me flist? I've only just started getting to grips with the whole wacky business, so...
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: July 18th, 2005 01:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'm more or less cool with any friend who wants to add me. I don't keep hyper-personal stuff in here.
straussmonster From: straussmonster Date: July 18th, 2005 02:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
Current enjoyable horcrux theory:

Dumbledore wrecked a hand destroying one. Who has a magical hand, that we know? Peter is not happy where he is, methinks. He doesn't like being Snape's slave, and he's listening at doors. As Harry spared Peter from the Furies, Peter canonically owes Harry a big one.

So maybe our shock is going to be Peter breaking away from his housemate and making some recompense for his previous failures of will and self-preservation above all.
thewhiteowl From: thewhiteowl Date: July 18th, 2005 03:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
So does any destruction of a Horcrux take a hand? The Trio only have six between them, after all...
straussmonster From: straussmonster Date: July 18th, 2005 03:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
The destruction seems to have been damaging to a body part. The potential parallels hop out at me, that Peter's loss of a hand and replacement must play a role, and she just said in interview that Peter's not going to kill Lupin...
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: July 18th, 2005 09:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
But the ring had not been destroyed when we first saw Dumbledore's injured hand. I think he injured it whilst retreiving it, not when he destroyed it.

YMMV.
straussmonster From: straussmonster Date: July 18th, 2005 10:50 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ooh. I haven't gone back and worked on the continuity there. Thanks!
murgatroyd314 From: murgatroyd314 Date: July 19th, 2005 01:03 am (UTC) (Link)
On the contrary. When we first see the ring on Dumbledore's hand in Chapter Four: "It was large, rather clumsily made of what looked like gold, and was set with a heavy black stone that had cracked down the middle."
dizzy_chisel From: dizzy_chisel Date: July 18th, 2005 05:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
The destruction of the diary didn't take a sacrifice. True, Harry got bitten by the Basilik before that, but I don't count this.

The diary was probably V's first Horcrux, and he's have put more and more dangerous magical protections on those he made afterwards.
rainingtulips From: rainingtulips Date: July 19th, 2005 12:12 am (UTC) (Link)
Even if the diary were a later Horcrux, Voldemort probably wouldn't have wanted to put strong (or at least as strong) magical protection on the diary because he intended to use it to re-open the Chamber of Secrets. If there were strong magical protections in place, it would be highly unlikely that a school-aged witch or wizard would be able to access the diary at all.
lannamichaels From: lannamichaels Date: July 18th, 2005 02:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think the last one is in Harry so much as on him. I think it's his scar. That said, I think what Voldemort meant the last one to be was in Godric's Hollow that night. Now I just have to go back and read through and think about what that could be.
genesse From: genesse Date: July 18th, 2005 02:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't think that Harry (or Ginny, for that matter) is a Horcrux, incidental or not. But I do think that it's possible that an incidental Horcrux could be found a Godric's Hollow. Harry's never expressed an interest in going there before, or even visiting the graves of his parents, and I think that there might be something drawing him there.
From: finmagik Date: July 18th, 2005 04:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
You know There was that locket wikth many charms that no one could open in Otoop was probably Slytherin's Locket, I'd bet a drabble on it.
dalf From: dalf Date: July 18th, 2005 05:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
What about the locket? The line in OotP while they are cleanning out 12GP saying they "found a heavey locket that no one coudl open" .... can't open because of whats in it I bet. Regulus did live at 12GP ... or at least he could have gone bacak there and hidden it.
violetsocks From: violetsocks Date: July 18th, 2005 05:45 pm (UTC) (Link)

Regarding the locket...

Thought I'd remind you, in the beginning of OotP the gang found a locket in a curio of some kind among other things while they were cleaning out the house. No one could open it.

This confirms that R.A.B. was Regulus.
silverhill From: silverhill Date: July 18th, 2005 06:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
I think the math seems off. But, seeing as this is J.K. Rowling we're talking about, that's hardly surprising.

Two horcruxes have been destroyed -- the diary and the ring. That leaves four horcruxes and the current location of his soul.

We are led to believe that if someone killed Voldemort's current physical incarnation, that seventh of his sould would die. But he wouldn't die completely because there are other living pieces of his soul out there, which he would then rely on.

So doesn't it make sense that when Avada Kedavra rebounded on Voldemort that that seventh of his soul was destroyed?

Or does his current soul go on lingering and can only be destroyed once all the horcruxes are destroyed?
murgatroyd314 From: murgatroyd314 Date: July 18th, 2005 08:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
In general, when the body dies, the soul moves on to whatever comes next. However, with the Horcruxes anchoring parts of the soul to earth, the part that was in V's body was unable to leave. That is what V was reduced to, "less than the meanest ghost", that possessed snakes and rodents in the forests of Albania.

This interpretation does open up another question, though: When a Horcrux is destroyed, does it destroy the soul fragment within, or merely set it loose wandering the earth?
marycontraria From: marycontraria Date: July 18th, 2005 06:29 pm (UTC) (Link)
I was about to say that I thought Nagini might be a red herring because the explanation for her being one of the Horcruxes at all seemed a bit glossed-over, but then I realised she mightn't be the only one - has anyone really paid any attention to the fact that Tom didn't even ask Slughorn about Horcruxes till after he'd already killed Myrtle and his father??
kinderjedi From: kinderjedi Date: July 18th, 2005 07:51 pm (UTC) (Link)
has anyone really paid any attention to the fact that Tom didn't even ask Slughorn about Horcruxes till after he'd already killed Myrtle and his father??

Myrtle was killed by the basilisk, though, and not directly by Tom, so I don't think we can count her in this instance. So it's possible he'd made just one horcrux by the time of his conversation with Slughorn and was simply looking for confirmation of his theories before moving on and making more.
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: July 18th, 2005 08:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Maybe he hadn't made the horcrux at all yet, just taken the ring and made it into a horcrux later.
marycontraria From: marycontraria Date: July 18th, 2005 08:20 pm (UTC) (Link)
Good point. And I suppose the diary could have been an accidental Horcrux, or the deliberate first and then he wanted to know if he could make more... he seemed so eager to find out what they were, though, that I wondered.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 08:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
And grandparents. I'm not sure I see how that's a red herring, though...? It's not as if Voldemort has to have created a Horcrux every time he killed someone.
marycontraria From: marycontraria Date: July 18th, 2005 08:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
No, but the implication was that the diary was his first created Horcrux, created at his first kill - Myrtle. There is almost as strong an implication that the ring was the Horcrux created at the same time as he killed his father and grandparents, although granted that could have just been taken then and used later. It's the diary that makes me wonder.
persephone_kore From: persephone_kore Date: July 18th, 2005 08:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
I guess I'm forgetting where that's implied.... I thought it was something possible to come up with unless paying careful attention to the chronology, or at least to Riddle wearing the ring while asking about Horcruxes, and Dumbledore observing that apparently once he made it a Horcrux he didn't care to wear it anymore. Although Dumbledore could have the sequence of events wrong, I suppose.
zephprolixity From: zephprolixity Date: July 18th, 2005 09:31 pm (UTC) (Link)
Seven locations yes. But Voldemort's Body is not a Horcrux. So: Six Horcruxes.

"A Horcrux..." according to Slughorn, "is a word for an object in which a person has concealed a part of their soul." USHBP Pgs 497-498

Dumbledore says there are only six, on page 503 USHBP, "But firstly, no, Harry, not seven Horcruxes: six. The seventh part of his soul however maimed, resides inside his regenerated body. That was the part of him that lived a spectral existence for so many years during his exile; without that, he has no self at all. That seventh piece of soul will be the last that anybody wishing to kill Voldemort must attack -- the piece that lives in his body."

But I do think you have the general gist of things laid down pretty well.

1. Tom's diary (destroyed USHBP Pg 503)
2. Slytherin's/ Guant's ring (also destroyed USHBP Pg 503)
3. Slytherin's locket (stolen by R.A.B. possibly destroyed?)
4. Hufflepuff's cup?
5. Something of Ravenclaw's ???
6. Something of Gryffindor's ???

I'm wondering tho', if a Horcrux can be a living creature, has Voldie used Nagini as a Horcrux to replace the destroyed Diary?
sreya From: sreya Date: July 20th, 2005 09:53 am (UTC) (Link)
I think that they're all at the school, one way or the other, and R.A.B. will lead Harry back there.

Well, that would certainly explain Voldemort's later visit to Hogwarts to ask Dumbledore for the DADA position when they both know he won't get it!
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