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Another Latin translation question - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Another Latin translation question
For use in an actual fic this time, instead of just my own amusement. Can anyone translate into Latin:

There are many shapes to love and honor

Thanks!
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Comments
(Deleted comment)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 06:55 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't know--I'm always leery of mechanical translators--but it sounds good.

And I had to pause to just appreciate your icon.
From: peppa_minto Date: February 4th, 2006 06:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
I could ask Volandum.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 06:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
Too late!
From: peppa_minto Date: February 4th, 2006 07:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
You rock, g-dawg.

I'm slow, I know.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hee.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 06:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
aspecti amoris honorisque multi adsunt. That's open to permutation at will, by the way.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
aspecti amoris

Would that translate roughly to "The Shapes (or aspects) of Love"?

Thanks!
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
It would indeed.

Some alternatives:

formae = forms
figurae = forms/figures
conformationes, which is a tad unwieldy
schemae = shapes
idola = shapes (of idols etc)
formulae = outlines/shapes
facies = looks/shapes/appearances
vultus = faces
minoukatze From: minoukatze Date: February 4th, 2006 07:01 pm (UTC) (Link)
My Latin's about rusty enough to induce lockjaw and I can't vouch for how correct the grammar is, but I'll give it a shot:

Formae amoris et honoris sunt.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Works as well as mine, if you just put a "many" in.
minoukatze From: minoukatze Date: February 4th, 2006 07:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks- caught that right after I hit 'post comment':)
minoukatze From: minoukatze Date: February 4th, 2006 07:02 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ack! I mean: Multae formae amoris et honoris sunt.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
Thanks.

I think I like the sound of "Aspecti" better than "formae," but I like the brevity of this predicate part. (God, I need to take Latin.)

Would Multi aspecti amoris et honoris sunt make any grammatical sense? (I'm assuming that "multi" goes with "aspecti" as "multae" goes with "formae," which may be more of an an assumption than I should make! ;P)
minoukatze From: minoukatze Date: February 4th, 2006 07:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Looks good to me:)
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:11 pm (UTC) (Link)
Then we have the new Lupin family motto. :D

(It's for the rt_challenge, Monday's prompt. Their son makes a new family tree.)
minoukatze From: minoukatze Date: February 4th, 2006 07:24 pm (UTC) (Link)
Woohoo!
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 4th, 2006 07:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
You can make it shorter still and skip the "sunt", if you like. However, it should be "multi aspectus": aspectus is fourth declension.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
You're right; my apologies.
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 4th, 2006 07:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
I had to look it up to make sure, despite the fact that I've been paid to know about these things... *sigh*
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:25 pm (UTC) (Link)
You have? You are most awesome.
hermia7 From: hermia7 Date: February 4th, 2006 07:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
What happened to that group-Latin-learn? I still have that dusty Wheelock staring balefully from my shelf...
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Let's pick a text and start a comm.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
May I join?
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hey, someone who can correct us floundering beginners? Sounds like a brilliant idea.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Please keep me informed, then. I'll probably amuse you by floundering incompetently myself, but that just adds to the fun.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 17th, 2006 12:31 am (UTC) (Link)
May I ask what became of this?
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 17th, 2006 12:46 am (UTC) (Link)
I finally had a copy of Wheelock's come in on hold. I have four days off. I'll see what I can do. Honestly, I don't want to actually run the community, though, just participate.
volandum From: volandum Date: February 17th, 2006 12:49 am (UTC) (Link)
Ditto on wanting to participate, but I am interested.

Good luck!
hermia7 From: hermia7 Date: February 4th, 2006 07:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
(argh, replied from my other read-only LJ account, PLUS it was full of typos. re-posting now.)
The book I have is Wheelock's Latin, 5th edition. The preface talks about how it was rewritten to provide a beginning latin textbook for college students, since so few enter college having taken any Latin. Ok, I checked Amazon and there's now a 6th edition, about $20, and it can be bought with the workbook for $31:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0060784237/sr=1-1/qid=1139082778/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9182864-7903367?%5Fencoding=UTF8

I think Wheelock is the golden standard? I'm game!
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 08:06 pm (UTC) (Link)
It'll have to wait a couple of weeks (funny thing about paying for the heat bill before the Latin book), but it looks as good as any. I have a few high school Latin textbooks I can get to at work as well.
terrathree From: terrathree Date: February 5th, 2006 05:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wheelock's is a great self-study text. There's also a mailing list for Latin learners at http://www.quasillum.com/study/latinstudy.php , and I believe they use Wheelock. I use it with my honors Latin class - high schoolers - and it works pretty well, though it's more geared to college age and above. The grammar explanations are good (although Dale Grote's page and book help a lot to break down the more difficult bits). What I like best about Wheelock is the abundance of authentic Latin in it to practice on - from the first lesson, you get "Sententiae", quotes from Latin authors, many of which are unadapted from their original forms.
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 4th, 2006 07:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Hmmm. Just for fun. How about "Amor honorque specie variat", literally "love and honour differ with regards to form/shape"?
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:09 pm (UTC) (Link)
variant - love and honour are plural.
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 4th, 2006 07:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
You can use either singular or plural in this case I think, as love and honour are dead things, and the verb then follows the singular of the closest word, the pattern being "murus et porta fulmine icta est". The singular seems more catchy to me, but that may be just me. :)
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:26 pm (UTC) (Link)
I see - I'll go and look this up immediately. Thank you.
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 4th, 2006 07:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
And thank you - trying out different possibilities in translation and discussing them is the best part of Latin grammar courses!
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:34 pm (UTC) (Link)
Not to mention a good spur to go look for an online grammar.

Will this reference serve to demonstrate your point? - http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0001&query=head%3D%23203
volandum From: volandum Date: February 4th, 2006 07:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
To clarify, I'm looking at the section

If the subjects ... the verb is usually singular ...
So almost always when the subjects are abstract nouns.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 4th, 2006 07:59 pm (UTC) (Link)
Don't suppose you could do one more? ;P

I'm putting a header on a family tree, sort of like the House of Black, except it would be, in this case, the house of Lupin. I'm guessing the name part would be Lupinus, but what's the house part? Domus? Familia? Some entirely unusual word that means "house" with the connotation of a long pedigree?

Thanks. :)
terrathree From: terrathree Date: February 4th, 2006 10:30 pm (UTC) (Link)
Familia can mean household...But for a family tree, I'd use "Gens", which has a broader meaning to include the whole clan, like "Gens Julia" meaning the whole family with the nomen of "Julius". "Gens" is feminine so modified by Lupin, it would be Gens Lupina, I'd say.
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 5th, 2006 10:45 am (UTC) (Link)
Oh, gens is a good idea! You should really go with that, Fern!
dipsas From: dipsas Date: February 5th, 2006 10:40 am (UTC) (Link)
Domus lupina (domus is actually feminine), or familia lupina, both sound fine to me! I think familia has more of that pedigree dimension you're looking for, but I may be wrong about that.
terrathree From: terrathree Date: February 4th, 2006 10:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
By "to love and honor" do you mean love and honor as nouns (i.e., love and honor each have many forms) or as verbs (i.e., one may love many forms and honor many forms)? Because I took them as verbs when I read your post originally; in "amoris et honoris", they're nouns, but that could make sense too now that I think of it. :-) Only, amoris and honoris are literally "of love" and "of honor". For "to" love and honor I think I'd use a dative ending (technically, it would make this a dative of possession): amori et honori sunt.

Or, if they're verbs, I would use the gerundive to show obligation (many forms ought to be loved and honored):

[Sunt] multi aspectus amandi honorandi.

You can put "et" or "atque" or "ac" for "and" between the -andi verb forms, but you can also leave it out; asyndeton is a nice effect in mottoes like this. :-)
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