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Gen Y narcissism? - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Gen Y narcissism?
Someone at JF linked to a Chicago Trib story about Gen Y's narcissism.

Thoughts?
37 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
cheshyre From: cheshyre Date: February 28th, 2007 01:15 am (UTC) (Link)
Convenient that they only started testing *after* it was too late to measure the Baby Boomers...
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 28th, 2007 03:14 am (UTC) (Link)
Yeah, I noticed that. The generation that even in castigating itself comes up with stuff like, "We were the generation that could have changed the world, and instead we [did whatever the person dislikes most]." Dudes, every generation changes the word. Get over yourselves.
stephantom From: stephantom Date: February 28th, 2007 01:19 am (UTC) (Link)
Wait, what age exactly is Gen Y? I thought we were the Echo Boomers? Is that the same?

Anyway. I... It's interesting, but I'm not sure about it. There may be a lot of focus on oneself, but I'm not sure it's all as positive as they're indicating. That is, it's not just, "I'm so great!" but more like um, bravado, possibly? Focus on the self, but in a negative sense as well? It just really hasn't been my experience with my peers - I've observed a lot of insecurity and a lot of depression in my generation, actually, so in a way I'm surprised by the reports of tests showing inflated egos. And the anecdotes of obnoxious people... Haven't there always been a fair number of obnoxious, self-interested cutthroats around?
verdenia From: verdenia Date: March 3rd, 2007 12:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
In general, Gen Y = Echo Boomers, but to be more specific, the EBs are the children of Baby Boomers, whereas GY is simply what came after Gen X.

So, my youngest siblings, I would call gen Y, b/c our parents were [barely] too old to be Boomers.
ladyvorkosigan From: ladyvorkosigan Date: February 28th, 2007 01:42 am (UTC) (Link)
Eh, Today's Youth have been sending the world to hell in a handbasket for milennia now - can't expect today's generation to be any different.

(And I don't notice my peers being any more narcissistic than people I've observed of my parent's generation; often, they seem less so, but I suspect that's because they've had less time to decide the world is really all about them).
shuttafly From: shuttafly Date: February 28th, 2007 02:38 am (UTC) (Link)
As an extroverted student at a major state university who doesn't walk around constantly plugged into an iPod/cell bubble, I can certainly place their descriptions of student behavior. The students in my Finance classes are almost overwhelmingly mediocre box-checkers who don't care about knowledge for its own sake (or for true improvement of others' and their own lives). It's all about what's on the exam so we can put in some rote memorization and drink it away immediately afterwards, how cheap the Smokin'Notes (equivalent of Cliffs Notes for any subject) are, etc. (Geez, I sound cynical!) There's a lot of coldness, a lot of self-absorption, and a lot of disrespect. But there are also people who genuinely believe in hard work, have grounded moral centers, and reach out to touch others, in this same university. I think that society has become more fostering and certainly more forgiving of this mentality, but that good parenting, a lot of it, and early, is paramount in a child's life. It may be a trend, but it doesn't have to be that way for individuals.

"Generation Me: Why Today's Young Americans Are More Confident, Assertive, Entitled — and More Miserable Than Ever Before." This struck a chord with me. But I believe the part after the hyphen is what they should be focusing on. The title implies a direct link from confidence and assertiveness (which are both fantastic traits!) to misery, but qualifies it in the actual story: they're being taught to go through the motions of confidence and to assert without any real backbone, because they're not being given any foundation. It's all about the achievement without the hard work. It's all about the destination with no journey at all--and they don't know what's missing, because they've never had a qualifying process. That's probably why their confidence rings more than a little hollow.

I'm Maia, by the way. It's about time I introduced myself--I've been reading your Remus/Tonks stories for well over a year now! Thank you for them.

-Maia
stephantom From: stephantom Date: February 28th, 2007 02:49 am (UTC) (Link)
As an extroverted student at a major state university who doesn't walk around constantly plugged into an iPod/cell bubble

Does constantly using an ipod and cell phone, and blogging and stuff, really correlate to narcissism? It's isolating, sure, I don't understand who isolation can cause any real confidence. Maybe a warped sense of confidence in some individuals, but I'm not sure it's really related to the overall picture. (And I'm not just responding to you - the article seemed to be implying this, I thought.)

-an introverted student at a small hippie college who does walk around in an ipod/cell bubble
onionsarelife From: onionsarelife Date: February 28th, 2007 03:09 am (UTC) (Link)
oh man. These articles make me so mad! How the crap are you supposed to make judgements on an ENTIRE generation from a few surveys that people were probably forced to take in the first place and did a half-ass job on?

In any case, I don't believe that my generation is any more big headed than generations of the past. Our generations is SO MUCH BETTER.(haha i'm totally kidding :P)
dreamcoat_mom From: dreamcoat_mom Date: February 28th, 2007 03:40 am (UTC) (Link)
Ah - this is one of my favorite subjects as of late, because I attended a week-end workshop on working with millenials in the library setting, and I learned a great deal about this generation's profile.

As the parent of millenials, I can tell you that they have had little choice, and really, so have we. From the time they were born these children were required by federal law and cultural pressures to be belted in, padded up, helmeted, micro-managed and scheduled to within an inch of their lives. Even so-called "free time" was so heavily structured, that their ability to think independently and critically was never developed - yet there is a great deal of hand-wringing at the university level because they didn't magically acquire the skill upon graduation from high school!

These "narcissistic tendencies" are a natural offshoot of knowing that their parents' schedules revolve around their own, that mom and dad are required by the school system and the culture to be completely involved in the minutiae of their day, which is planned out from rising to bedtime. Do you know what the number one "leisure activity" was among a poll of 100 high school seniors? Sleep. Sleep - a leisure activity! When a child's day leaves little room for exploring their world or for free-flowing human interaction and their parents and educators have been restrained from damaging their self-esteem with criticism, the result is going to have to be a focus on the self, both positive and negative. (The negative aspects of it were never mentioned in today's news story, interestingly enough.)

That said, I think that they will grow up to be a formidable generation in spite of themselves. Along with the things I've mentioned above, they've been taught to think more globally than we ever did. They know how to work as part of a team, and to work pretty hard. They certainly know how to put in a long day. They respect and rely on the adults in their lives more than we did, and because of that, they don't want to let us down. They believe in themselves, and though that might translate to mediocrity at the moment, I think maturity will force them to raise their standards. After all, I don't remember being particularly driven or even wholly responsible at that age, either.



fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 28th, 2007 03:50 am (UTC) (Link)
That's an excellent observation. I've been increasingly horrified for years at the micromanagement. Yes, it probably wasn't all that safe for myself and four cousins to be sitting, unstrapped, on the wheel wells in an open plan van, but you know what? We all lived to adulthood anyway. And I've had to learn that if you want kids to attend something, you have to schedule it months in advance, because they're "booked." And yet, when you ask, "What do you like when you're not at school?"--a frequent question to help kids who've suddenly been told to write a report on "a biography" or even "something that interests you"--the answer is less of a bored, 80s-teenager "I dunno" than a truly baffled "I don't know!" I keep feeling like Maria in The Sound of Music: "But, Captain... when do they play, sir?" Only the pre-Maria von Trapp kids in that movie look easygoing and content in comparison.
moonspinner From: moonspinner Date: February 28th, 2007 07:06 am (UTC) (Link)
I'd rather people had too much confidence than too little. It's easy for the world to take confidence from people but it rarely gives it.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 28th, 2007 03:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
The problem is that it's false confidence, and false confidence is a lot easier to undermine. If you have confidence based on actual accomplishments, a single failure won't be much of a blow--you can always get up, dust yourself off, and try again. But if you've got this bloated, egotistical kind of fake confidence, a single failure can point out that there's nothing holding up your entire self-image, and it can be disastrous. (I look at things like the rise of self-publishing, where people are literally paying money to make sure that they don't go through the rounds of rejection... and the books are pretty uniformly awful. And the scam artists who run the companies hit exactly the right note: "No one else has the right to judge whether or not your book is good! Only you can really know how special your story is!" Smart move on their part. Way to scoop up money from writers desperate to not risk having the ego-balloon popped.)
singingtopsy From: singingtopsy Date: February 28th, 2007 07:12 am (UTC) (Link)
As a Millenial at a prestigious, large, and competitive state school, I do see some of the cookie-cutter Gen Y characteristics in my classmates, but I thought this article was silly.
Narcissism is a nice, loaded word to bandy around, but pathological narcissism is a specific disorder, and while the article does say that they don't think that more college students need treatment for NPD (not that it would help, since NPD patients are almost impossible to treat), the evidence they cite doesn't really line up with a viable way to diagnose narcissism, and the authors obviously don't care: they'd rather call a whole generation of young people "narcissists" instead of engaging in the underlying conditions and problems of Gen Y, just to have something new to write an article about.
You know, I'm an introverted and knowledge-hungry young woman at a very liberal school and this article frankly made me want to defend my more mundane, conservative peers! The authors are concerned that today's students are more likely to worry about their financial success than developing a "philosophy of life." Wow! Today's youth have the same priorities as the rest of American society! How utterly shocking! And I cannot BELIEVE that we get penalized for not being 70s-era hippies. I personally may want to sit around all day and talk about art, philosophy, and the state of the world, but I'm postmodern enough to realize that not every student wants or will do this, and to accept their pragmatism and not judge it (much).
The only sensible part of this article was Marck Flacks's part, placing Millenials in their context. Our society DOES reward and promote selfishness and writers at the Tribune should write an article about that instead of about how shocking and unexpected this new generation is, and how absolutely horribly we're behaving.
Sorry to react so strongly to the article itself instead of engaging the issue, but shoddy and sensationalist journalism bothers me. Maybe I'm just so special that I can't stand criticism of my own generation, eh? ;)
lareinenoire From: lareinenoire Date: February 28th, 2007 11:35 am (UTC) (Link)
Umm...they're generalising. A lot.

As someone who *does*, admittedly, walk around plugged into her iPod (I have a 30-minute walk to get to the library from my house and it makes the trip go faster), I certainly wouldn't call myself narcissistic. At least not in any pathological sense, certainly.

The main point of this article seems to be that Gen Y is Worse Than Us™. Now, really. Is it at least possible that there might be some selfish purpose behind that?

I can only speak as someone who had an upper-middle-class upbringing, but I remember growing up during the very beginnings of what I like to think of as regimented childhood. My parents more or less left me to my own devices, but one of my mother's best friends completely scripted both of her children's days. They *never* had any free time, literally. We only saw them in the gaps between their various camps, school newspaper meetings, organised sports, debate clubs, and God only knows what. Ultimately, both of them ended up at Harvard and I'm fairly sure both are in med school there now. I have no idea if they're happy. Presumably they're not miserable, but it's difficult to say.

I, on the other hand, am studying a subject I love (English) at a university I've wanted to attend since I was fourteen (Oxford). It was a longer and somewhat more circuitous route, but I eventually got there. And I think I'm rightfully proud of that because it took a lot of hard work.

This is not to say that there aren't narcissistic people in Gen Y. I think there are -- but I don't think there are any more than in any previous generation. Not all people growing up in the 70's were hippies, after all. And someone ought to do a study on where those 'hippies' are now. My guess would be ultra-conservative Republicans hanging onto their tax cuts. Now who's narcissistic?

Overall, I found the article to be patronising and possibly bordering on insulting. It's a pet peeve of mine when people make generalisations based on a small study and present it as fact.
verdenia From: verdenia Date: March 3rd, 2007 12:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
Not all people growing up in the 70's were hippies, after all. And someone ought to do a study on where those 'hippies' are now. My guess would be ultra-conservative Republicans hanging onto their tax cuts.

To be fair, there are still old hippies left--I know several of them personally. But then, I'm in California, and have met many of them in the Old Hippie Enclaves--Berkeley and Santa Cruz. ;P

In general, though, once people make a lot of money, they want to hold onto it. So maybe they become Repubs, or maybe they go Libertarian.

Regardless, I rather doubt that they'd be ultra-conservative. Just because you want a tax break doesn't mean that social values automatically change.
the_jackalope From: the_jackalope Date: February 28th, 2007 01:00 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yea, I'm going to go with a bit of an overreaction. Just because we/they (I'm right on the cusp of the X/Y line) don't have the same values as they do the Boomers are going nuts. "Those damn kids get 'em off my lawn" sort of stuff. This line especially cracks me up:

But that survey also showed that current freshmen are much more interested in financial success and less in "a meaningful philosophy of life" than students were in the 1970s.

And it's not like I don't think the article has a point, but I don't think it is anywhere near as serious as the article makes it out to be. Mountians and molehills and all that jazz.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 28th, 2007 03:05 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yeah, that line was great for the lulz. They said exactly the same thing with Gen X. They want to make money, ZOMG! (Granted, I'd have preferred a nice, Tolkienian ivory tower, but then, that's not what the boom was after, either. They wanted us to still be protesting Vietnam. Stop the war after we surrendered and turned tail!!!)
ladyelaine From: ladyelaine Date: February 28th, 2007 01:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
What are they going to call it after they reach Generation Z?
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: February 28th, 2007 03:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
They'll have to start with cutesy names again, like "The Lost Generation" or "The Gilded Generation." (Howe and Strauss--who make a lot of generalizations, but are somewhat less annoying becaues they talk about the strengths rather than how much the upcoming generation sucks--already use different terms, with 13ers for GenX and Millennials for GenY.)
(Deleted comment)
aebhel From: aebhel Date: March 1st, 2007 06:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yeah, as a 21-year-old college student, I'm really kind of...offended by that. Very offended, actually. It really gets on my nerves when college professors bemoan the fact that "these horrible people...they want to make MONEY with their degrees! The awfulness of it all!" We live in a society where you pretty much need a college degree to make a halfway decent living in any kind of professional field. Maybe it makes me a horrible person, but I don't have any ideals that are going to be irreparably compromised by having a steady job and a means to pay the rent.

And where do they get off saying that we're more narcissistic than previous generations? Young people are cocky and stupid. It's a function of being young, not of being born in a certain generation. I do think that the tendency toward micromanaging kids lives is, well, bad, but it also seems to be hugely exaggerated. It's a trend that exists more or less entirely in the suburban upper-middle class, and despite what these people would have us think, not everyone grows up in a suburban, upper-middle class family.
verdenia From: verdenia Date: March 3rd, 2007 12:28 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yup, the micro-management and volunteering-for-academic-reasons stuff does seem like a very middle/upper-middle/upper class set of practices.

I'm near the end of Gen X, my middle sis is on the border, and our youngest sibs are Y...I saw those things more with other kids than our own family, but we did have some activities.

Some truth to the article, yeah. It'll be interesting to see if it qualifies as scholarly.

I did see people there for the Diploma even amongst my high school class--maybe a bit less at my college: a Major State hippie University. ;P

Certainly agree that False Confidence is Bad. ;P

Urgh...must sleep! ;s
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