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Spamming my journal with random HP thoughts - The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
Spamming my journal with random HP thoughts
I think it was pauraque who was talking about why no one saw Peter on the Marauder's Map. Random thought--I don't think it's mentioned that anyone other than Remus saw him there. Could it be that that the boys Charmed it so they could see everyone, but only they could see one another? Just in case it fell into the wrong hands? That would explain why Remus saw Peter, but neither Harry nor the twins ever did. (And presumably, Hagrid's hut, where Peter was hiding, would have been off the scope of the map for one reason or another. Remus mentions watching three go in, then noticing four come out--in other words, he couldn't see them inside. Did Harry ever discuss having the map in Scabbers' presence? If so, that could explain why he went someplace where he knew he wouldn't be seen. After all, he'd know how it worked.)

Shoot down the theory--who, other than Remus, saw Peter on the map? (Not counting movie!Harry, of course.)
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Comments
liwy From: liwy Date: June 29th, 2004 01:12 pm (UTC) (Link)
No-one saw Peter-but Snape saw Lupin.
pauraque From: pauraque Date: June 29th, 2004 01:46 pm (UTC) (Link)
This is correct, but if fernwithy really wanted to keep her theory, she could say that it has to do with who activated the map. When Snape was looking at it, Remus had activated it and merely forgotten to clear it. Perhaps if Snape had activated it himself, Remus would not have appeared.
liwy From: liwy Date: June 29th, 2004 04:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
True enough. I guess it all depends on how much effort they put into the map.
erised1810 From: erised1810 Date: June 29th, 2004 01:14 pm (UTC) (Link)
*chants8 plot-hole! plot-hole! plot-hole!
I like the theory that the map was charmed .I also think that Remus had been observign the thign more closely. I think jkr woudl explain it that he was too focussed on looking for Filtch or Snape or Mrs Norris.
and she's jsut said somewhere else in her faQ that wizards can make themselves untracable.
cheshyre From: cheshyre Date: June 29th, 2004 01:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
Looking through my copy of PoA (supplemented by harrypotterfacts.com)
Harry tells Ron about the map in Chapter 10 in Hogsmeade before Xmas. Couldn't find any indication whether Ron brought Scabbers with him.
Scabbers disappears Chapter 12 after Xmas break, just after Neville loses his passwords.
If Scabbers were aware of that (Neville's passwords) he might've put two and two together and realized that would give Sirius access to the dorms, and that's why he fled.
The map isn't mentioned again until Chapter 14, after Scabbers has fled.
natgel From: natgel Date: June 29th, 2004 01:18 pm (UTC) (Link)
Everyone saw him, I think, no one paid too much attention to him. You know, when you're not looking for something, or aren't familiar with it, you never notice it's there until you know what or who that is? Like that.
vytresna From: vytresna Date: June 30th, 2004 02:21 pm (UTC) (Link)
Yeah, first of all, Scabbers would have mostly been in the dorms, where Fred and George wouldn't be looking. Secondly, if they were for some reason checking the dorms, upon seeing Pettigrew's name, they wouldn't say,
"Hey look, it's that obscure dead guy I heard of one time!"

The spaces between uses of the map are also a factor.
sonetka From: sonetka Date: June 29th, 2004 01:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
I'd guess that it was a combination of factors; one being the fact that, until Christmas, neither Harry nor the twins had any idea who Peter Pettigrew was. Maybe he did see the name randomly scurrying around, but for all he knew it was an upperclassman or something like that.

Possibly more realistically; however enchanted that map was, it had to be very hard to read if it showed the location of every single person in the school. In the movie, they show these enormous balloons with name labels that practically leap out at you, but really they were probably a good bit smaller than that just for space reasons, so that unless you were just sitting down in safety and reading the map for pleasure, you wouldn't really be able to take in much more than who was in the area immediately surrounding you. There's no indication that Harry ever used the map under the kind of circumstances where he was interested in anything other than who might be in the hallway ahead of him.
ashtur From: ashtur Date: June 29th, 2004 01:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
Maybe the Map shows you the name in the form that you know. To that end, when Harry or the Twins looked in the map, they saw "Scabbers", when Remus looked, he would have either seen "Peter" or possibly "Wormtail".

I'm not sure if they looked on the map at all after Scabbers faked his death, but even if they did, it's more than possible that he had slipped the grounds far enough to be outside of the maps enchantment.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: June 29th, 2004 01:35 pm (UTC) (Link)
That wouldn't work, as he saw the man he knew as Moody as "Bartemius Crouch."
ashtur From: ashtur Date: June 29th, 2004 01:37 pm (UTC) (Link)
Ack! And it sounded like such a good theory too.
sreya From: sreya Date: June 29th, 2004 02:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've always just assumed that they never saw Peter on the map because a) they weren't looking for him, and b) the name didn't hold a whole lot of meaning for them.

Even after Harry hears the whole story at Christmas, I don't think the part about Peter really sunk in all that much -- maybe just as much as "some friend of Dad's went after that murdering son of a *** and got blown up with the Muggles".

And as someone mentioned, it's got to be pretty hard to read most of the time. With everyone crowding through the halls, etc, it'd be a mass pack of names. Usually when Harry sees a particular name on the map, it's when he's either out at night and checking the halls, so few people are out, or when he's looking for a specific person, like Filch. The rest he just ignores.

Heh. Not that Harry would ever ignore something that he doesn't think pertains directly to whatever he's doing.
silverhill From: silverhill Date: June 29th, 2004 02:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
I don't have my book accessible at the moment, but I do remember this: Just after Fred and George give the map to Harry there's a line that says something like "A new figure appeared on the map, labeled Harry Potter."

If Harry "appeared" on the Marauders Map, that means he wasn't always there. That suggests that everybody isn't showing up on the map all the time.

Or it could be a plot hole (which is what I'm inclined to think).
ashesofautumn From: ashesofautumn Date: June 29th, 2004 03:43 pm (UTC) (Link)
Didn't Snape see both Lupin and Sirius when he went to give Lupin his potion?
theladyfeylene From: theladyfeylene Date: June 29th, 2004 05:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Wandered over from the daily_snitch. *waves hello*

Snape saw both Remus and Sirius on the map, presumably in the shack/going into the shack. So why didn't he see Peter, too?
malabud From: malabud Date: June 29th, 2004 06:19 pm (UTC) (Link)
Actually, he only saw Lupin on the map:

"I've just been to your office, Lupin. You forgot to take your potion tonight, so I took a gobletful along. And very lucky I did... lucky for me, I mean. Lying on your desk was a certain map. One glance at it told me all I needed to know. I saw you running along this passageway and out of sight." (Snape to Lupin, PoA Ch. 19)

We can see from this that the map ends somewhere along the passage to the shack and does not include the shack itself. Therefore, Snape saw neither Sirius nor Peter on the map.
kizmet_42 From: kizmet_42 Date: June 30th, 2004 05:48 am (UTC) (Link)
My theory:

1) the map always tells its holder where it is.

2) the map tells you where someone is when you ask it (Where's Umbridge, Where's Filch/Mrs. Norris) or who's nearby (around the Room of Requirement).

3)The map shows people and who they're with.

If Lupin saw the kids heading toward Hagrid's cottage, Lupin might have looked away, knowing where they were going. Take a quick break for the bathroom and have a cup of tea, come back twenty minutes later and see them leaving, now with Pettigrew and Sirius closing in on them. He leaves the map. Snape comes is, says out loud "Where are you, Lupin?" goes to the desk because he sees the map and sees Lupin on the map heading for the Whomping Willow. He's not in the Shack yet, so Snape doesn't notice who's there.

Feel free to poke holes.
vytresna From: vytresna Date: June 30th, 2004 02:27 pm (UTC) (Link)
Or maybe Hagrid's cottage doesn't appear on the map...
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 1st, 2004 05:50 am (UTC) (Link)

Figures and names on map

Off the top of my head - I'll check the canon later:

A) The figures on the map appear as "tiny dots" with names next to them. I remember this said specifically. It would be probably very hard to notice someone by chance (I'll address Crouch later).

B) When one concentrates on a specific target - like someone you're looking for - the Map zooms in, and even adds extra info. When Harry saw the hidden passageway to Honeydukes, the Map zoomed in and told him the password. I believe it also mentions that when concentrating like that, the Map zoomed in on the "dot" until it became a figure.

So, my take on it is that you usually see on the Map what you're looking for, and miss most of everything else. Remus was looking for Harry (since he suspected he would sneak out to Hagrid's) and found him in the hut. Once he zoomed in there, he saw Peter's dot in the cabin with them. When Harry looked at himself, he wasn't looking for Peter, there were more people in a close radius to him than at Hagrid's cabin, and as was already pointed out, he probably wouldn't have remembered enough to attach significance to the name.

In Goblet of Fire, Harry was specifically watching Snape's office, and therefore noticed Bartemius Crouch inside (and no-one else!)

I'll post quotes later if I can.

Cheers,
Shloz (remember me?)
From: (Anonymous) Date: July 1st, 2004 06:15 am (UTC) (Link)

Quotes

"It was a map showing every detail of the Hogwarts castle... tiny ink dots moving around it, each labeled with a name in miniscule writing."
PoA, Chapter Ten, "The Marauder's Map"

note "tiny" and "miniscule".

As mentioned, Harry didn't see himself until he looked for the dot in the right place. The people he sees at first are Dumbledore, Mrs. Norris and Peeves, each in a place all by themselves and noticeable. Harry didn't even look at the Gryffindor dorms, where Scabbers hould have been.

As for Remus:
"The important thing is I was watching it carefully this evening, because I had an idea that [Harry], Ron and Hermione might try to sneak out of the castle...
"Twenty minutes later... you were now accompanied by somebody else (Peter)."
PoA, Chapter 18 "MWPP"

As for Crouch, Harry was using the Map to get back to GT after figuring out the egg clue in the Prefects' bath:
"Harry examined the Map to check that the coast was still clear... nothing else seemed to be moving... something else on the map caught his eye... Peeves was not the only thing that was moving. A single dot was flitting around... Snape's office... it was Bartemius Crouch."
GoF, Chapter 25 "The Egg and the Eye"
Harry noticed Crouch because he was the only moving dot (besides Peeves) in a sleeping castle.
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