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The Phantom Librarian
Spewing out too many words since November 2003
fernwithy
fernwithy
The Last Tribute: Chapter Two
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From: queen_bellatrix Date: August 10th, 2014 03:01 am (UTC) (Link)

Feedback/Catches Part 1

Forgive my verbosity; usually, I can get my comment down to the character limit, but I have a lot of possible catches/questions/general comments for this one, and it just isn't happening.

Capitol script Should Capitol maybe be Capitol's?

to pull backward Can't quite tell if there should maybe be a her before backward?

surprised what happens Think there may be a by or an at missing here.

The touch their Think the the should be they.

way crowd showed Think there should be a the before crowd.

heels of his hand Think either the heels needs to be heel, or the hand needs to be plural.:)

Haymitch you Just the missing comma.

When the bellhop brings Just a possible continuity thing: a bit before, he said the bellhop brought his gin, and that he was drinking as he recited the tributes backwards. So, unless I'm misreading, you mentioned the gin coming twice?

And course Think you need an of before course.

Capitol's shadow Think the shadow should maybe be shadowy?

I stand up. My You have him standing twice in this bit; he stands up, and everything lurches, and then he gets to his feet and knocks over the bottle; did he have to sit back down, and then got back up? Otherwise, maybe just have this paragraph start with My stomach etc. etc.?

I'm a bit confused on the meds front; is Effie just not thinking of the detox pills (the ones that "absorb" the poisons) you introduced in TANT, or have those been put on the same status as the meds that actually turn off the neurotransmitters? I can see it going either way; if the detoxers are supposed to absorb the poison, you'd have to go and make sure they were actually doing it, and your liver etc. etc. wasn't deteriorating. But, I can also see Egnatia flooding the airwaves with ads about the medicine that actually "cures" drinking if you take a full course, and Effie just not remembering the other sort.

Effie's comment about stealing glory is so much worse after reading TANT. Because I have the feeling that she meant it as a bit of a joke, or at least a way to put Kattniss at ease; but those awful drugs stripped away all the District-related sensitivity she was learning, and thereby all her filters. And like so many have said, the way we get a glimpse of "real" Effie, with her concern over Peeta being Danny's before she starts thinking about angles and then her agreeing to help Haymitch makes it even worse. And I've expressed pity for Haymitch, but I'm really feeling Effie-pity here. Because she must feel so hurt that Haymitch doesn't want her to be well. And what a clever idea of Haymitch's, to have his token visible!

I've thought Haymitch had hit rock bottom before, but in retrospect, none of those moments were as close to it as this. Watching this makes me very afraid that if he hadn't had a Victor that year, he might have simply gone back home and very deliberately drank himself to death. Because I don't think there's much lower he could sink; once he started losing sponsors, it would become even harder to support his tributes, which would just intensify the cycle of self-hatred, which would just intensify the drinking. Realizing he'd lost the Daughters was as much a gutpunch for the reader as it was for Haymitch, because they really have always been there.

I think it was also such a gutpunch because even when you're infuriated at how much he's drinking and why, he feels things so deeply, and is trying so hard to do the best he can that you desperately want him to succeed. I lovedthat rather than being angry at the loss of the DOF's funds, he's ashamed/frustrated that he let them down. Though the clencher for me was his immediate worry about his issues not scaring the tributes further.: (Also, speaking of the DOF, I'm assuming they must've taken some sort of collection at their annual election, and he's worried about losing that, along with the contributions of members who left their roles to follow the organization's lead, since Effie's comment that a lot of members still being on board means he isn't losing everything?)d


From: queen_bellatrix Date: August 10th, 2014 03:03 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Feedback/Catches Part 2

I loved the scene with Danny. You did a fabulous job of showing that, no matter what Haymitch drunkenly believes later, Danny's anger was more along the lines of: They took my kid while you did a pratfall; please get with the program! rather than: I hate you for getting me into this, and that if he's angry at anyone, it's himself. Also, Danny, you get serious points for coming out of your despair long enough to tell Haymitch the best way you knew how that no matter what you might say later, you understood if he couldn't bring Peeta home. I hadn't considered Haymitch's point about how a lot of the parents aren't actually wishing other kids dead, even as they wish for the return of their own. But, once he said it, it slotted perfectly into my understanding of the HG verse.

I hadn't seriously considered the two Haymitch suppositions you made in this chapter (the vomiting as reaction to the pin and the reason for the fall), but they slot so well into what we know of Haymitch, I think it'll be hard to find other interpretations of those incidents plausible.

I loved so many things you played with in this about perception. It really struck me how much Haymitch being drunk made him unaware of how badly he would come off to Kattniss for that display on the stage (seriously, if you didn't understand what your mentor was doing, that would be so weirdly/creepily off), and then his thoughts about how he was presented by the Capitol/Effie, right down to his fancy outfits, created artificial barriers between himself and Twelve; just a really spot-on insight. Also really loved why he, of all people, didn't salute Kattniss; what a plausible explanation!

The ways you're interweaving the relationship between tributes and their mentors in this are marvelous. From Haymitch flatly telling Danny that essentially, he had to back Peeta's play, to the sense of responsibility that was the impetus for Haymitch's stage display, it felt like things a victor would think/do, and a large part of that was how well you've laid the groundwork in the prior parts of this series. I also thought his thoughts about his own Games were used brilliantly. After all, he played the Games as hard as he could, but he also had people to help him when he faultered. And getting his mentions of that prior to his falling made his actions after he thought how hard she was playing the Game feel inevitable. And all the things you've done to strengthen their connection before they meet were wonderful. Seeing his friends and himself when he looks at her seems particularly apt.

In closing, loved the touches of Victor family, with mention of Finn bringing a seashell to show everyone what the ocean sounded like, because so few of them had actually been able to see it on their victory tour.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: August 10th, 2014 03:26 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Feedback/Catches Part 2

That scene with Danny was really hard. Haymitch definitely interprets it as "I hate you." Of course, at that point, he probably interprets, "Nice to see you" as "I hate you."

Katniss in the book recognizes how "convenient" Haymitch's timing is with his drunken rant, so I think we were supposed to notice it, at least in retrospect. The pin thing just occurred to me as I was writing.

So much of HG is about perception. It's really a fascinating way of looking at the world.

I love the relationship between Katniss and Haymitch. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to catch, because I want to avoid a lot of rehashed material, but the way they grow to count on each other and trust each other, despite many clear reasons they shouldn't (the phrase "never trust a drunk" is a very familiar one to me)... it's really quite lovely.
fernwithy From: fernwithy Date: August 10th, 2014 03:22 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Feedback/Catches Part 1

The detoxer and the medicine he's been taking are different -- if I were being totally logical, I'd have her switch him to the detoxer that she knew they were developing, but in GM, he'd never heard of it until she gave it to him on the victory tour, so I couldn't.

I thought I'd taken out the second gin thing (I noticed it earlier) -- guess it didn't take.

I think you're right that Effie meant it to try and calm Katniss down, but she's completely lost all sense of empathy and proper timing. It really was awful, but I also have the sense that it wasn't at all malicious. Just really, really tone deaf.

The DoF is its members, but it's also an organization with dues and a treasury and so on. So, let's say, that he had Tryphaena Buttery as a sponsor, and some of the others. But he also had their corporate sponsorship from the group treasury. That's what he lost.
From: (Anonymous) Date: August 11th, 2014 06:40 am (UTC) (Link)

Re: Feedback/Catches Part 1

He might be able to get it back, depending on legalities...if they're some some of non-profit/tax-exempt organization, and they already earmarked out the donation for tax purposes, they might not be able to reallocate those funds. I don't know that that would hold up in any sort of court of law, but he could try making that argument.
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